Did Cain sin when he committed murder?

[John Toppass]

I also see that Cain's line of descendents has names with almost identical names as Seth's. Showing that the evil one (satan) can almost but not quite copy good for the sake of evil. Just as Seth's line continued on, Cains line ceased existance when the flood came.

 

[OldRegular]

Cain obviously sinned or he would not have been punished by God. We must not assume that the first 9 chapters of Scripture record all that God revealed to man. Cain and Abel obviously had been instructed to make an offering.

Genesis 4:3-7 tells us of the worthiness of Cain's offering relative to Abel's:

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

The New Testament sheds additional light on Cain's offering:

Hebrrews 11:4. By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Although the above Scripture does not speak of Cain as being unrighteous, by implication he was, particularly in light of Genesis 4:7. Furthermore, his offering was not accompanied by faith. The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Church at Rome tells us:

Romans 14:23. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

This verse is obviously lifted out of context but even taken in context I believe it is applicable to the sin of Cain.

1John 3:12. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.

The above Scripture from John verifies the remarks about Cain from Genesis and Hebrews.

 

[Aaron]

Jim1999,

Your posts are dead on in this thread. (I know that because they're almost exactly what I would say.)

Are you the same Jim1999 in all the pro-Obama threads? Say it ain't so!

 

[Jim1999]

I don't think I am for or against any American politician. I am for his declared first state visit to Canada.

I would expect you and I would paddle the same canoe in different directions...

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

There was no law written when Noah built the ark and God said men were evil, and He was going to destroy people and the earth because of it.
I seem to remember some verse that says something like God writes His laws on mens(people) hearts.

Are you thinking of this?

Rom. 2
12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them

 

[OldRegular]

Further than the question about Cain's sin in killing Abel since there was no law, we have to remember that that was no written law for, what, 2000 years or more, until Moses.

We do not know there was no written law before the Flood. Scripture does not speak of it but Scripture was very brief on the history of that period. We have a tendency to think of these people as primitive. However, since the consequence of sin had corrupted the mind, since people lived much longer than we do, it is likely that in general they were more intelligent than we are.

 

[Allan]

Are you thinking of this?

Rom. 2
12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;

13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them

I believe that is what she was thinking of, but then again, what do I know.

However this time period is seen as the time of the conscience and it is by mens 'own' laws which they set up. This was based upon what is internally known already as general good and evil (as illistrated in your quote of scripture above) and was something God Himself has already given to every man.

IOW - Man's conscience is proven to be ineffective in keeping us from falling or sin.

 

[blackbird]

It can be noted that in various parts of Genesis----that Cain DID converse with God----I cannot fathom that God would speak with him and NOT tell him

"Oh, and by the way, Cain!!! That red octagon sign there at the intersection---it means STOP!! You gotta STOP when you see one of those signs!! I know there's nothing written that says that---but I'm tellin' ya so you can know!!"

 

[Allan]

It can be noted that in various parts of Genesis----that Cain DID converse with God----I cannot fathom that God would speak with him and NOT tell him

"Oh, and by the way, Cain!!! That red octagon sign there at the intersection---it means STOP!! You gotta STOP when you see one of those signs!! I know there's nothing written that says that---but I'm tellin' ya so you can know!!"

Yes, but you will have some that say God did not allow Cain to understand what He was talking out. Thus Cain was left in his sin to continue sinning because God did not actually desire for him to repent.

Oops.. need to get back on topic... Yes, God did speak with Cain so that he would and did know what was right and true in God's eyes. God even states that 'he knows' that if he does right he will be accepted.

 

[Salty]

IOW - Man's conscience is proven to be ineffective in keeping us from falling or sin.

Allan, I think that just about sums it up!

 

[MB]

I think Cain sinned because God warned him about this:

Gen 4:
4Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering;

5but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell.
6Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7"If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."


So although there was no commandment against murder, God warned Cain about his anger and that sin was "crouching a tthe door" but Cain must "master it."

You're right it was sin for Cain The Law however is writen on our hearts.
MB

 

[Jim1999]

Sometimes man becomes so entangled in the things of interest to him (Paul speaking in 2 Timothy 2:4) that he completely misses what God is saying. Cain was so wrapped up in himself and what Abel was accomplishiing in life before God, even God's speaking to him fell on deaf ears.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[rbell]

Someone brought this up on another thread.

Did Cain sin when he committed murder since there was no law against murder at that point?

If that line of reasoning were valid, would not God have unjustly judged the world during the time of Noah?

 

[Marcia]

If that line of reasoning were valid, would not God have unjustly judged the world during the time of Noah?

I agree with your point. Just to clarify, I was not asserting that Cain didn't sin. It was a question brought up on another thread by someone else and I stated a thread on it here.

It's clear that God judged men for doing evil before the Flood, and the Flood was not unjust.