Did Christ actually save anyone on the cross?

Wes

The point of your response to my post eludes me.

 

Wes says:

I've never met any human who knows the devil personally and up close and can describe what he looks like.

Here Now says:

I've never met a man who didn't know the devil up close and personal.

 

Here now,
It's nice to make your acquaintence. Now you can no longer say that!

I don't know the devil up close and personal...never have known him! I know that evil exists, but I've never met the leader of the pack! Yes, I do sin! but that doesn't mean, "the devil made me do it". It means that I do it because I am a sinner, not because satan resides in me.

Hope you understand the difference!

 

Wes

here now corectly states: "I've never met a man who didn't know the devil up close and personal." You reject his assertion about the sinful nature of man but that is OK you reject the Biblical teaching of the depravity of man also, namely: 1Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I am beginning to understand why you make man, rather than God, sovereign in Salvation.

 

Does the cross save anyone?

Answer: Yes - the Cross saves ALL.

Is the Cross sufficient to save EVERYONE?

Answer: YES the Cross is sufficient payment for sin to pay for the sins of ALL! For that reason it is sufficent to save EVERYONE!

Yes but - were Moses and Elijah (with Christ in Matt 17) in hell waiting for Christ to die?

NO - they were in heaven and are still in heaven. The cross saved ALL the saints BACK in time - forgiving them AHEAD of time such that Elijah, Enoch, Moses etc were born again before the cross, forgiven before the cross, sanctified before the cross, in heaven before the cross.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Here now,
I too am quite fond of Hebrews 9, and I post the context of what you posted as a challenge to my statement. Hopefully you will see in the context where your thinking is off kilter, and perhaps you will understand that you are wrong in using vs 15 and 16 as proof text against me.

The divisions and emphasis are mine.

You will notices "sin being no more", and "to bring them salvation". Please also notice that the reason for the Christ's appearance is "to do away with sin".
By what you have been saying along with Johnp, rc, and others, is that man still dies in his sins. Scriptures tell us otherwise. SIN HAS BEEN DONE AWAY WITH BY THE CHRIST'S ONCE-FOR-ALL SACRIFICE. No man is under the penalty of sin. You must believe that, or you are not believing the bible!

 

Whetstone,
You certainly take great pride in your ability to put labels on people.

 

So you are a universalist then? </font>[/QUOTE]Nope.


"HE IS The Atoning Sacrifice for OUR SINS and NOT for OUR SINS only but for those of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

"God sent His Son to be the Savior of the World" 1John 4:14.

"Come unto ME ALL who are weary and heavy ladened" Matt 11.

"God is not willing for ANY to persish but for ALL to come to repentance"2Peter 3

"I will draw ALL mankind unto ME" John 12:32.

"He will convict the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16

Case closed!

IN Christ,

Bob

 

Are you saying that man no longer sins and that man is not accountable for those sins? Surely you jest!

 

No, I did not say that now did I?

 

If in your opinion, I said what you say I said, then you are no better at interpreting modern written thought then you are at interpreting the thoughts contained in ancient writings.

I never said that "man NO LONGER SINS", I said, that because of the Christs' atonement for sin, man no longer dies because of his sins. But rather because of lack of faith in God.

 

Same song, same verse, a little longer, a little worse.

 

If you don't like the song, get out of the choir!

 

Proof please. Because I can offer the contrary.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. NKJV

Once again Wes you have shown us that you hold to some very un-orthodox ideas that even Arminians reject.

 

Do you have Scripture to prove that man dies, not because of sin, but "because of lack of faith in God"? That sounds like something that might come from the word-faith crowd.

 

This is all answered in God's word people.

For ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

"So the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."

For God so loved the world, that He sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the work, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only son.

Because - "HE HAS NOT" not "god didn't allow."

You talk about 2 Peter 3:9 being "beaten to death," maybe it is because we hope you'll actually read it from your heart. "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Is it "up to us?"

2 Thessalonians says man perishes because of a willful and intentional refusal to believe in the truth.

2 Thessalonians 2:10
"and in every sort of evil that decieves those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
They refused. Not "God did not reach out to them." You can't refuse what is not offered.
Refusal, per the bible translators is "willful and intentional".

Christ died for all men. Those who perish "REFUSED" the truth.

Its so simple.