Did Christ actually save anyone on the cross?

Long blustering is more like it!

 

Long blustering is more like it!

Yes Wes that's what I said.

john.

 

Wes,
I would be scared of getting smited for saying this.

This is like saying you are saved by your own hands.

 

Without Grace we're still under the Law.
And we're all dead.
And we can't save ourselves.

 

except if you are Arminian.

john.

 

Grace you are saved, THROUGH FAITH...

You need both, God's grace in making a means for salvation, and our faith in that means.

 

Wes,
I would be scared of getting smited for saying this.

This is like saying you are saved by your own hands. </font>[/QUOTE]That's not the kind of 'fear of the Lord' indicated in scripture.

It's really is quite simple here now, God did all the work necessary for man's salvation so there is nothing for man to do except have faith! Therefore our salvation is on the basis of our faith!

If you don't believe that God has already done ALL the work, name one thing that has not been completed. Name one thing or work or what ever you want to call it that MAN must do, that is not met in man's meeting the requirement to have faith.

OUR individual Salvation is based on OUR individual FAITH alone, there are no other requirements levied on man!

 

Wes,
I would be scared of getting smited for saying this.

This is like saying you are saved by your own hands. </font>[/QUOTE]That's not the kind of 'fear of the Lord' indicated in scripture.


It's really is quite simple here now, God did all the work necessary for man's salvation so there is nothing for man to do except have faith! Therefore our salvation is on the basis of our faith!

If you don't believe that God has already done ALL the work, name one thing that has not been completed. Name one thing or work or what ever you want to call it that MAN must do, that is not met in man's meeting the requirement to have faith.

OUR individual Salvation is based on OUR individual FAITH alone, there are no other requirements levied on man! </font>[/QUOTE]ha ha, you're preaching to the choir, that it has ALL been COMPLETED.

I'll go one further for you:
An individual's faith is a GIFT from GOD!

After all if a man were capable of faith then he could boast.

 

Every human being ever created has faith, doesn't mean they have faith in Christ, but everybody does posses the ability to exercize faith.

Do you think almost every human alive has sat in some kind of chair? That is having faith in the chair to hold you. Faith CANNOT be a gift to ANYONE, we are born with the ability to have faith.

 

Then you lack understanding of God's created man. Faith is INHERENT TO MAN ALONE! No other creature has it, or the capacity to have it. Man has faith in whatever man wants to have faith in. That is why we are told by God, Exodus 20, "Thou shall have no other gods before me!" It requires faith to have other gods. There is no other God who can give man faith, and God the Father does not give what HE does not have! Our faith comes from what we know, or God would not have said, "For lack of knowledge, my people perish. FAITH is based upon knowledge, knowledge is gained by hearing and faith in God comes from hearing God's word.

Here now, you can continue in your blindness, or you can abandon your blinders and learn of God. That's right you have the choice, because you have free will to exercise that choice. If you refuse to do so, only you can be blamed!

 

"free will" where is the free part, before salvation i was a slave to my sinful desires, now that i am saved i am Free to worship God in spirit and truth. does not the "free" in "free will" imply unincumbered, and unincumbered is the last way i would describe my pre-salvation will.

anyway thank you and God Bless

 

Then you lack understanding of God's created man. Faith is INHERENT TO MAN ALONE! No other creature has it, or the capacity to have it. Man has faith in whatever man wants to have faith in. That is why we are told by God, Exodus 20, "Thou shall have no other gods before me!" It requires faith to have other gods. There is no other God who can give man faith, and God the Father does not give what HE does not have! Our faith comes from what we know, or God would not have said, "For lack of knowledge, my people perish. FAITH is based upon knowledge, knowledge is gained by hearing and faith in God comes from hearing God's word.

Here now, you can continue in your blindness, or you can abandon your blinders and learn of God. That's right you have the choice, because you have free will to exercise that choice. If you refuse to do so, only you can be blamed! </font>[/QUOTE]Oh yea, one more thing, not only is faith a gift from God, removal of the blinders is also a gift from God.

 

Then you lack understanding of God's created man. Faith is INHERENT TO MAN ALONE! No other creature has it, or the capacity to have it. Man has faith in whatever man wants to have faith in. That is why we are told by God, Exodus 20, "Thou shall have no other gods before me!" It requires faith to have other gods. There is no other God who can give man faith, and God the Father does not give what HE does not have! Our faith comes from what we know, or God would not have said, "For lack of knowledge, my people perish. FAITH is based upon knowledge, knowledge is gained by hearing and faith in God comes from hearing God's word.

Here now, you can continue in your blindness, or you can abandon your blinders and learn of God. That's right you have the choice, because you have free will to exercise that choice. If you refuse to do so, only you can be blamed! </font>[/QUOTE]Oh yea, one more thing, not only is faith a gift from God, removal of the blinders is also a gift from God. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, let us hope he gives you this last gift soon!

 

He already has. But He continues to do so with each new revelation. Thanks for the prayer.

 

Then use that gift!

By the way, you did not explain HOW an individual's faith is a gift of God. Care to do that now?

 

God gives man faith through an act of His will. We being natural, and the Gift of Faith being an act of God, would call it a supernatural act.

 

Is all faith then a supernatural act?

 

Only the faith that is given to man by God is supernatural.

 

And what faith would that be?

Is it different than human faith in his fellow man?
Is it different than human faith in other gods?
Is it different than human faith in a chair?
Is it different than human faith in any object other than than God?

Please explain how it is different!

 

Wes

If you ever experience the Faith that is the Gift of God you will know the difference. Scripture tells us in Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. This is the Faith that God gives. I earnestly hope that you will one day experience that Gift of God.