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Featured Did Christ Die For The Sin Of Unbelief?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Nov 21, 2021.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Exactly. God is not random. God does not work on a whim. God has reason and works out His plan.

    Also, what is with the "God foresees the self-righteous" thing in post # 155? Are you saying God saves those He knew would choose salvation?
     
    #161 JonC, Dec 7, 2021
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    None would choose salvation. They would at best choose a false god just as the Pharisees did. They are blind and cannot discern spiritual truth, much less Christ. You are saying people save themselves.
     
    #162 1689Dave, Dec 7, 2021
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It would seem someone here thinks in order for God to be omniscient, that God would need to be a repector of persons too. Which is simply not true.
     
    #163 37818, Dec 7, 2021
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    You are very confused about what I believe and I do not understand how you arrive at your conclusions.

    Is there a post you can provide of me saying God saves those He knew would choose Him?

    I think you may have confused me with another member. Quote the post to which you are referring and let's look at it together.
     
    #164 JonC, Dec 7, 2021
  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Let's not muddy the water. God is no respecter of persons. Therefore his choice of whom to save was purely arbitrary, for the sake of glorifying His wrath on the wicked. And glorifying his mercy on the wicked whom he arbitrarily chose to save. It's not about you or me.
     
    #165 1689Dave, Dec 7, 2021
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. Men are not righteous and are not saved because of any righteousness in them. But we cannot say this makes God arbitrary.

    Paul addresses this in Romans. Who are we to question why God saves some and not others? God has that right and He does not owe us an explanation.

    It certainly does not mean man saves himself or God acts in an arbitrary way.
     
    #166 JonC, Dec 7, 2021
  7. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    So you think He foresaw that you were better than most and chose you on that basis? Sharing his glory in salvation with you? This is what you get if his choice was not arbitrary.
     
    #167 1689Dave, Dec 7, 2021
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Why do you continue to say stuff like this. You claim I believe God saved those He foreknowledge would choose Him (which is a false claim).

    Where are you getting this stuff?

    Did those you were arguing with give up so you just decided to make up beliefs for me so you'd have an opponent?

    I am saying God chose to make vesseks of mercy and vessels of wrath. The reason was not arbitrary but in accordance with God's plan. It had nothing to do with some righteousness in us, but it was not willy nilly either.
     
    #168 JonC, Dec 7, 2021
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  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @1689Dave ,

    Let me illustrate what you are doing.

    So you, @1689Dave , believe Jesus' death on a cross was arbitrary. You believe this was God's predetermined plan because He peered into the future and saw it would happen. This means your salvation is happenstance, not God's redemptive plan. This is why you reject unconstitutional election. You do not accept that God decreed our redemption therefore could not choose the elect.


    Does this illustration at least help you see why it is wrong to attribute to me beliefs I never expressed?

    You would not like others doing it to you, so you probably should not do it to others.

    The difference between our views is I believe God created vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath. God did not create vessels and then arbitrarily choose some for mercy snd others for wrath. He is the Potter and we are the clay.
     
    #169 JonC, Dec 7, 2021
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  10. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    this thread is closed
     
    #170 Salty, Dec 7, 2021
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