Did Christ died for all men or just some men?

NO...
But what it does say is....

All that come unto me...I will not cast out.

Those that come...Christ will lose none.

And....No man comes....without being drawn

Then you say this verse says...all of mankind is drawn.

No man can come unless the Father gives him to the Son.....
The Bible says..ALL men that have Heard come...
No man can COME unless the Father draws them...
You say..All mankind are drawn...
Christ loses no man that comes...
not one that comes will be cast out.....
All Men that come are given rest....

 

Believers

Who has the Father given to the Son? It is simple, believers.

No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them.

So we are the messenger of the Father no one will come unless we go out.

Jesus will not lose a believer, but if we disown Jesus He will disown us.

Being drawned does not mean you will be saved, you still have to accept Jesus and His word.

 

Hello psalms109:31,

aaaaw ok...so believers can only come to Christ. humm. not sure about that one "109:31"
well...that is a new way to look at it. I think i'll stick with the elect come...and then believe after they come and are saved.

i see so now its back to us..that must lift up Christ.
...so as you see it..if they hear they come and are saved. Does "all" mean "all"? Does "every man" mean "every man"? I guess so...

Well...at least you take freewill to the end. Most want to claim God has no control untill we are saved. In your case...God has no contorl at all, and will give people up if they want to go. I'll stick to my God..thanks

Nope drawn does not mean you are saved. Drawn means you go. You come to where you are drawn to come. In this case Christ is calling you to be saved. You are drawn to Christ by this calling. Christ says all that come He will save.

I think that about says it "all". In your view all are saved. Is not life grand?

 

2 Peter 3:14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [a] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

James 5:19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

No the world can come to Jesus, but only believers will be saved.

We know the elect who will be saved is believer, whosoever believes shall be saved.

If you walk away from Jesus your only hope, you are condemned.

 

You have done nothing but show the bridges of human reasoning needed to make your doctrine work. And to think you believe my position is "man centered"...

 

funny thing...

This was not my doctrine. I asked others views..and this is the answers given.

 

hello MB,

What is the drawing factor that is talked about in this verse? I do not think its a drawing to play baseball. Nor is it a drawning to go out on a boat.

So based on this..I would say the Bible says we must come.

What do you think the drawing factor is?

Drawn to Christ...but why?

Drawn by God to what?

 

Hello MB

Indeed. Thanks for seeing this. Others seem to overlook that fact.
If this is viewed as others say it is to be viewed..and If the drawing is to all men...then all will be saved.
and if Christ turns away no man.....and I agree Christ saves all that come to Him....then if you hold to this view..all will be saved.

But...all men are not saved...

Then this verse means something other then what some would have it mean...

It has to..right?

1st let me say, I disagree with "psalms109:31" and others when they say "the lifting up" is believers sharing the gospel. Now... it maybe a play or words, where we can use it as a picture ...but this would be out of context. The text tells us that this is speaking of the type of death Christ would have and He being exalted unto heaven after the death.

He died not say "when I die."..for all men die. He was saying..when I die, this death means more then any other death. The lifting up is the victory we have over our sins and someday the victory over death. What happens after Christ death on the cross makes the last point come about. We do not see men running to Christ today. We never have seen this. This is not the meaning of the text. As you have stated…if this were the case…all men would believe.

What it is saying is…If I die on the cross…this makes it SURE that this other event will happen. In other words...The light is with you for a little while longer. Walk while you have the light, so that the darkness may not overtake you. The one who walks in the darkness does not know where he is going. While you have the light, believe in the light, so that you may become sons of light.”......and then...it happens.

Now what is the other event?

People want to be saved from hell. People do not want to go to hell, but they do not want to be saved from sin and the sin places them in hell. Man is the sinner. We must be saved from our will to sin.


In Christ...James

 

First the only tribes that returned were Judah and Benjamin. The other ten lost tribes were north and later migrated to the south. Some of the ten tribes are still lost. If we are going to quote history, then we should get it right.


I wanted to correct this post if I could. First I didn't use the word "no brainer" first, but John I Morris did ,but after reading the

post, I don't think he meant what I thought he did, so I should not of answered him as I did.

Second, the post by Jim above is not correct. He saw the exclamation marks and decided to answer that post without reading

the rest of the thread, I think. He said for me to go study history, but if I need to study history, so does Jesus,

James, Paul and many others. While it is true after the ten lost tribes of Israel began to start returning to Judah they

accepted being called Jews as a (nationality) even though it was not true.

Even though now and later years Jew was considered a nationality that was not true in the days of the apostles when James

wrote to the "twelve tribes".

Jesus said: Go ye to the lost sheep of the twelve tribes of Israel.

The Good Samaritain: on one side was the Samaritain and on the other was a "Levite".

Paul wrote in his time: I say then, Hath God cast away His people? God forbid, for I am also an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

One last point: All of the ten tribes of Israel have never been found till this day. Some are in Afganistan, Iraq and other places

and still are called by a name of one of the tribes or called an Israelite.

So, in conclusion I guess we all could study and it wouldn't hurt. I say, put more emphasis on scripture than history though.

 

Luke 10:

"30": And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

"31": And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

"32": And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

"33": But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

 

Hello MB,

Sorry to take so long. I'm busy right now, and will be for sometime.

If a free-willer will be true to form, they would ask does "all" mean "all" just as they do in other passages. In the KJV the passage reads.."all men" are drawn. Are all mean drawn? Is this what we see?

elkusw is the greek word used here.
1) to draw, drag off
2) metaph., to draw by inward power, lead, impel

Therefore, I would have to disagree. Its not that I disagree with ALL of what you said. But if we look at the context, it is not talking about justification..so I disagree with you trying to apply it to this text. If it were, we would be seeing sinners waiting in line to come to church. We would have people coming to our door and asking if they can be saved. But what we see is few in church. And we see others running us off from their house. Now...if it is talking about justification, there is only one "all" that come to Christ. Does all mean all? BTW...the word "men" is not in the greek. It reads...ALL will be drawn. When is this, and who is this?

Therefore there are only two ways to see this, that works with Gods Word, and fits with what we see.

1st it could be...

1) This passage is mis-used by the free-will camp to support their view. The lifting up is talking about his death, and the judgement of all of mankind. The lifting-up is not done by believers, if we stick with the text. Now, other text do show we too are to "lift up" the name of Christ. But this lifting up that we do in other passages, is telling the world about Christ. This is not talking about this, in this verse. If we claim that WE too must lift up Christ based on this verse, we are saying we must put Christ to death.

Next...We do not see all men come to Christ for the judgement day is not here. Before you read the text again, lets read these verses below. In these verses you will see all mankind saying that God is indeed God. All men will come...and all men will say this. Please read below...

Rev 1 says..

The fruit of the lifting up is that Christ took on death and won, and now has the right to judge the nations. Christ will not judge them as much as oversee the judgement. The Bible will act as the Law of God. This is when every man will come. Its judgement day.

This is the day that ALL men will come. We do not see ALL men coming now. But.....they will someday. Judgemeny day.

**********
The text....

NOTE: In this view.. this as the key verse. I guess the fruit here could be seen as men. And in a way it is. But I think the greater meaning is the power that comes behind the death of Christ. In either way, one of the key points as the death of Christ. This is when Christ is "lifted up". This is when "his time" is. Christ came to die. Christ was glorified (verse 23) in and after His death.

NOTE: Notice verse 27-28. This is Christ "laying down His life" for us. Christ is asking for the Father to glorify the Fathers name. He is asking the Father to be "lifted up"...to die. He is saying...this is why I came....I'm ready...lets do it.

NOTE: Notice "now". Now...because of Christ death, defended death and the evil ways of the Devil. Now...is the time it happened. Now was the death of Christ on the cross. Christ will sit in judgement over the world and Satan. Satan is done for and has been since the cross.

**********

Or...maybe this..

Gill's...

************


There you go... Take your pick. Now that's what i'm talking about!!


In Christ...James

 

According to Paul himself, He was from the tribe of Benjamin. I know there were Levites there for sure and does bring a question Paul being from the Benjamin tribe and of the priesthood.

Rom 11:1¶I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.

Also, history always calls it the ten lost tribes of Israel. I am sure there were some mixed with Judah when they returned from Babylon.

BTW, thanks for answering my post. I was beginning to think I had the itch since my suspension.