Did Christ Provide Sinners Only a "Chance"?

[Silverhair]

2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689, Article IX.


1. God has indued the will of man, by nature, with liberty and the power to choose and to act upon his choice. This free will is neither forced nor destined by any necessity of nature to do good or evil. [Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; DEuteronomy 30:19].


2. Man in his state of innocence, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was pleasing to God [Ecclesiastes 7:29], but he was unstable so that he might fall from this condition [Genesis 3:6]..


3. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, has completely lost all ability of will to perform any of the good which accompanies salvation [Romans 5:6; 8:7]. As a natural man, he is altogether opposed to spiritual good and dead in sin [Ephesians 2:1-5].He is not able by His own strength to convert himself or to prepare himself for conversion [Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44].


4. When God converts a sinner and translates him into a state of grace, He frees him from his natural bondage to sin [Colossians 1:13; John 8:36] and by grace alone, He enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good [Philippians 2::13]. But because of his remaining corruptions, he does not only 9or perfectly will that which is good, but also wills that which is evil [Romans 7:15-23].


5. The will of man will only be made perfectly and immutably free to will good alone in the state of glory [Ephesians 4:13]..

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE LBCF
Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of
His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is
God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the
will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather
established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in
accomplishing His decree.4
1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

If God has decreed all that happens then He controls all that happens would you not agree. For these man to then say but actually He really did not decree all things just some things is just them trying to escape the box they had just put themselves in.

The calvinist DoG
Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Their own theology precludes this, but they just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

Both your LBCF and DoG do not allow for a free will unless one is to ignore the parts you want ignored depending upon what you are speaking about. These man made documents do not comport with the bible but you will insist in trusting in them more than the bible.

 

[Alan Gross]

CHAPTER 3; OF GOD’S DECREE LBCF
Paragraph 1. God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of
His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is
God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the
will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather
established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in
accomplishing His decree.4
1 Isa. 46:10; Eph. 1:11; Heb. 6:17; Rom. 9:15,18
2 James 1:13; 1 John 1:5
3 Acts 4:27,28; John 19:11
4 Num. 23:19; Eph. 1:3-5

If God has decreed all that happens then He controls all that happens would you not agree. For these man to then say but actually He really did not decree all things just some things is just them trying to escape the box they had just put themselves in.

The calvinist DoG
Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Their own theology precludes this, but they just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

Both your LBCF and DoG do not allow for a free will unless one is to ignore the parts you want ignored depending upon what you are speaking about. These man made documents do not comport with the bible but you will insist in trusting in them more than the bible.

Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Their

Amen.

And man's "equal chance" was lost, in them also, when Adam sinned.

If they, I, you, would have been there,
instead of Adam, they, I, you,
would have proven our Created Mutability, too.

We COULD CHANGE, so we did,
to something with "no soundness in it".

God is Glorified, without changing.

 

[Silverhair]

That shouldn't be the case any more. The link from Ken's post above gives you a clear picture of Calvinism at it's more deterministic side and the confession above posted by Alan, which is almost word for word the same as the WCF, gives you the view of the Puritan's, early Calvinistic English Baptists, and Presbyterians.

The same range occurs with free will folks. Some are like the moderate Calvinists in that the work of the Spirit is essential for conversion with the difference being that grace can be resisted. Others believe that everyone has enough "light" that they can on their own hear the gospel and believe. Others believe that there is power in the word itself.

Also, notice that in the above post from Alan there are scripture references for each point. You may not agree with them or the Calvinist conclusions but it is not fair to say they don't trust the Bible.

Actually when I have dealt with most calvinists they refer to their documents for support more than they do the bible or they will disagree with the bible because some calvinist document tells them to. That is the sad state of calvinism that I have seen on many boards and I agree that is not confined to just the calvinist view.

Dave so which calvinist view is true? Ken or Alan or perhaps you have a different view. Personally I do not care if one calls themselves a Calvinist, Arminian or whatever, if they do not agree with the text of the bible then they are wrong. Man does not have the right to change the clear intent of the bible so that it fits their philosophy.

God inspired the writers of the bible so that through reading it man could come to know God and be saved. It took theologians to make it a mystery so that no one can understand it so as to be saved. As Paul said
1Pe 2:1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,
1Pe 2:2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby

 

[Silverhair]

Amen.

And man's "equal chance" was lost, in them also, when Adam sinned.

If they, I, you, would have been there,
instead of Adam, they, I, you,
would have proven our Created Mutability, too.

We COULD CHANGE, so we did,
to something with "no soundness in it".

God is Glorified, without changing.

So you agree with what the DoG says rather than the bible. Your authority is your calvinism rather than the bible.

 

[Alan Gross]

So you agree with what the DoG says rather than the bible. Your authority is your calvinism rather than the bible.

Respond to each of these scriptures,
so I know you have read them,

1. Even the fire of hell through eternity will not take away the stain of sin in the souls there.
   
   That how dreadfully, eternally, deep our sin is, Against a Trice-Holy, Eternal God.
   
   This pollution spreads, like leaven and leprosy.
2. It is universal, and has defiled all the faculties of the inner man, so that there is "no soundness in it" (Isa. 1:6).
   
   
   Refusal to consider fallen man’s condition helps no one.
   
   Until we are brought to realize this truth
   we shall never despair of self
   and look away to Another.
   
   Biblical Description of Sin
   
   No representations of sin are more common in the Scriptures than those taken from its defiling effects.
   
   Throughout it is portrayed as ugly and revolting, unclean and disgusting.
   
   Sin is pictured by leprosy, the most loathsome disease which can attack the human frame.
   
   It is likened to wounds, bruises and putrefying sores.
   
   It is compared to a cage of unclean birds.
   
   The inseparable connection of the beautiful and good and the ugly and sinful pervades the moral teaching of both Testaments. That connection is ethical and not aesthetic.
   
   To reverse the order would be to reduce righteousness to a matter of taste, and to regulate authority according to its appeal to our sentiments.
   
   As someone has said, the aesthetic sentiment is a reflection from the moral sphere, a transfer to our senses of those perceptions found in their purity only in the realm of the spiritual and divine.
   
   Sin is really and originally all that is ugly; nothing else is ugly except as a result of its connection with sin.
   
   The ugliness which it creates is its own blot. It has deranged the whole structure of the soul, and morally ulcerated man from head to foot.
   
   "We are all as an unclean thing" (Isa. 64:6).
   
   Thus God’s Word describes us: foul and filthy. That pollution is deep and unmistakable, likened to crimson dye(Isa. 1:18),
   or to the blackness of the Ethiopia (Jer. 13:23),
   
   which cannot be washed away by the niter of positive thinking or the soap of reformation (Jer. 2:22).
   
   It is an indelible pollution, for it is
   "written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of ... [the] heart" (Jer. 17:1).
   
   The great deluge did not wash it from the earth, nor did the fire that came down upon Sodom burn it out. It is ineradicable.
   
   Even the fire of hell through eternity will not take away the stain of sin in the souls there.
   
   This pollution spreads, like leaven and leprosy. It is universal, and has defiled all the faculties of the inner man, so that there is "no soundness in it" (Isa. 1:6).
   
   Soul and body alike are contaminated,
   for we read of the
   
   "filthiness of the flesh and spirit" (II Cor. 7:1).
   
   It extends to the thoughts and imaginations,
   
   as well as to words and deeds.
   
   It is malignant and deadly, "the poison of asps"
   (Rom. 3:13).
   
   "I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live" (Ezek. 16:6).
   
   The doubling of that expression
   shows the deadly nature of the pollution.
   
   Sin is as loathsome as it is criminal; it is like a foul stench in the nostrils of the Lord.
   
   Thus the day man corrupted himself, his Maker could no longer endure him, but drove him out of the garden (Gen. 3:24).
   
   The Scriptures liken man to foxes for their subtlety,
   to wild bulls for their intractableness,
   to briers and thorns for their hurtfulness,
   to pigs for their greediness and filthiness,
   to bears and lions for their cruelty and bloodthirstiness, to serpents for their hatefulness.
   
   However unpleasant and forbidding this subject,
   it is an integral part of "the counsel of God"
   which His ministers are not at liberty to withhold.
   
   They are not free to pick and choose their themes, still less to tone them down. Rather each one is told by his Master, "Speak unto them all that I commanded thee: be not dismayed at their faces" (Jer. 1:17).
   
   Asylums, prisons and cemeteries are depressing sights, yet they are painful facts of human history.
   
   Refusal to consider fallen man’s condition helps no one.
   
   Until we are brought to realize this truth
   we shall never despair of self and look away to Another.
   
   This solemn side of the picture is indeed dark,
   yet it is the necessary background to redemption

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[Van]

According to some people, Christ died to give all a chance of being saved! I do not know that I hate anything more in my soul than to hear that. It makes Jesus Christ so little - that He should do so much, and after all only to get us a chance of being saved. Why, if a man is set up in business, you see how often it happens that he fails in it; and if man cannot manage the paltry things of time and sense without being insolvent, what will he do with eternal realities? And if you come a little closer, when God "made man upright" and he had no sinful nature, what did he do with his innocence? He lost it all! And yet poor presumptuous man has the vanity to think you and I could manage the chance of being saved. What an insult it is to the Lord Jesus Christ to fix the eternal honor of God upon chance, and that chance to be managed by a poor sinful creature who is tumbling into half a dozen holes every hour of his life! NO, NO. Thanks be to God for immortal realities and certainties.

- William Gadsby, rest at Why Did Christ Die? - William Gadsby (pristinegrace.org)

Yet another absurd thread pushing an obviously false assertion. Just because Christ died to provide the opportunity for salvation to all who believe (as determined by God) that does not suggest Christ does not actually save each and every person given to Him by the Father. John 6:37.

 

[Alan Gross]

Yet another absurd thread pushing an obviously false assertion. Just because Christ died to provide the opportunity for salvation to all who believe (as determined by God) that does not suggest Christ does not actually save each and every person given to Him by the Father. John 6:37.

...and just because someone is dead in trespasses and sins
doesn't mean they can't LIVEN THEMSELVES UP,
with the Power God used to Raise Jesus from the dead.

...then, again, I could be lying LIKE THE DEVIL.

A lost sinner remains dead in sins and trespasses,
until being Quickened & Renewed by the Holy Spirit,
and is thereby Spiritually Enabled to Answer the Effectual Call of God,
by and through the Instrumentation of The WORD of GOD
and to Embrace the Grace Offered and Conveyed in it;

To Save a soul, God Must Use The Power, that Raised Christ from the Dead.

i Eph. 1.19,20.

19 "And what is the Exceeding Greatness of His Power
to us-ward who believe, according to the Working of His Mighty Power,

20 Which He Wrought in Christ, when He Raised Him from the Dead,
and set Him at His Own Right Hand in the Heavenly Places,"

 

[Silverhair]

Respond to each of these scriptures,
so I know you have read them,

1. Even the fire of hell through eternity will not take away the stain of sin in the souls there.
   
   That how dreadfully, eternally, deep our sin is, Against a Trice-Holy, Eternal God.
   
   This pollution spreads, like leaven and leprosy.
2. It is universal, and has defiled all the faculties of the inner man, so that there is "no soundness in it" (Isa. 1:6).
   
   
   Refusal to consider fallen man’s condition helps no one.
   
   Until we are brought to realize this truth
   we shall never despair of self
   and look away to Another.
   
   Biblical Description of Sin
   
   No representations of sin are more common in the Scriptures than those taken from its defiling effects.
   
   Throughout it is portrayed as ugly and revolting, unclean and disgusting.
   
   Sin is pictured by leprosy, the most loathsome disease which can attack the human frame.
   
   It is likened to wounds, bruises and putrefying sores.
   
   It is compared to a cage of unclean birds.
   
   The inseparable connection of the beautiful and good and the ugly and sinful pervades the moral teaching of both Testaments. That connection is ethical and not aesthetic.
   
   To reverse the order would be to reduce righteousness to a matter of taste, and to regulate authority according to its appeal to our sentiments.
   
   As someone has said, the aesthetic sentiment is a reflection from the moral sphere, a transfer to our senses of those perceptions found in their purity only in the realm of the spiritual and divine.
   
   Sin is really and originally all that is ugly; nothing else is ugly except as a result of its connection with sin.
   
   The ugliness which it creates is its own blot. It has deranged the whole structure of the soul, and morally ulcerated man from head to foot.
   
   "We are all as an unclean thing" (Isa. 64:6).
   
   Thus God’s Word describes us: foul and filthy. That pollution is deep and unmistakable, likened to crimson dye(Isa. 1:18),
   or to the blackness of the Ethiopia (Jer. 13:23),
   
   which cannot be washed away by the niter of positive thinking or the soap of reformation (Jer. 2:22).
   
   It is an indelible pollution, for it is
   "written with a pen of iron, and with the point of a diamond: it is graven upon the table of ... [the] heart" (Jer. 17:1).
   
   The great deluge did not wash it from the earth, nor did the fire that came down upon Sodom burn it out. It is ineradicable.
   
   Even the fire of hell through eternity will not take away the stain of sin in the souls there.
   
   This pollution spreads, like leaven and leprosy. It is universal, and has defiled all the faculties of the inner man, so that there is "no soundness in it" (Isa. 1:6).
   
   Soul and body alike are contaminated,
   for we read of the
   
   "filthiness of the flesh and spirit" (II Cor. 7:1).
   
   It extends to the thoughts and imaginations,
   
   as well as to words and deeds.
   
   It is malignant and deadly, "the poison of asps"
   (Rom. 3:13).
   
   "I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live" (Ezek. 16:6).
   
   The doubling of that expression
   shows the deadly nature of the pollution.
   
   Sin is as loathsome as it is criminal; it is like a foul stench in the nostrils of the Lord.
   
   Thus the day man corrupted himself, his Maker could no longer endure him, but drove him out of the garden (Gen. 3:24).
   
   The Scriptures liken man to foxes for their subtlety,
   to wild bulls for their intractableness,
   to briers and thorns for their hurtfulness,
   to pigs for their greediness and filthiness,
   to bears and lions for their cruelty and bloodthirstiness, to serpents for their hatefulness.
   
   However unpleasant and forbidding this subject,
   it is an integral part of "the counsel of God"
   which His ministers are not at liberty to withhold.
   
   They are not free to pick and choose their themes, still less to tone them down. Rather each one is told by his Master, "Speak unto them all that I commanded thee: be not dismayed at their faces" (Jer. 1:17).
   
   Asylums, prisons and cemeteries are depressing sights, yet they are painful facts of human history.
   
   Refusal to consider fallen man’s condition helps no one.
   
   Until we are brought to realize this truth
   we shall never despair of self and look away to Another.
   
   This solemn side of the picture is indeed dark,
   yet it is the necessary background to redemption

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Alan I am not questioning whether man sins, we do and the bible keeps pointing that out to us in various ways as the verses you chose shows. What I have been questioning all along is the philosophy that is calvinism and the DoG.
Man sin and is lost God loves and has provided the means of rescue.

The divide comes down to: God will only save some because that is all He wants to save {calvinism} God wants to save all but only some will be saved because most reject Him {Bible}.

 

[Dave G]

"Did Christ Provide Sinners Only a "Chance"?"

No, He came to do the work of the Father ( John 17:4 ).

" Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have {it} more abundantly.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd, and know my {sheep}, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. " (John 10:7-15).

 

[Silverhair]

"Did Christ Provide Sinners Only a "Chance"?"

No, He came to do the work of the Father ( John 17:4 ).

" Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have {it} more abundantly.
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
I am the good shepherd, and know my {sheep}, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. " (John 10:7-15).

Well if you read the bible God has provided various means of knowing Him. It could be creation or the conviction of the Holy Spirit, hearing the gospel message or just seeing how a Christian neighbor lives. Christ died so that all could be saved but man will only be saved if he trusts in God.

The flip side of your question is "Does Christ force anyone to be saved?" To which the answer would be NO as I am sure you would agree. So your question is true, sinners have the chance to be saved as God will not force anyone to be saved. That is why we have the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the preaching of the gospel etc. God is reaching out to us but we must respond.

 

[Alan Gross]

Alan I am not questioning whether man sins, we do and the bible keeps pointing that out to us in various ways as the verses you chose shows. What I have been questioning all along is the philosophy that is calvinism and the DoG.
Man sin and is lost God loves and has provided the means of rescue.

The divide comes down to: God will only save some because that is all He wants to save {calvinism} God wants to save all but only some will be saved because most reject Him {Bible}.

King James Bible
That at that time
1). ye were without Christ,
2.) being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and
3.) strangers from the covenants of promise,
4.) having no hope,
and
5.) without God in the World
Ephesians 2:12

Dead
Ephesians 2:1

You say dead is alive and God says dead is:

1). ye were without Christ,
2.) being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and
3.) strangers from the covenants of promise,
4.) having no hope,
and
5.) without God in the World
Ephesians 2:12

God had to, or has to, take the Initiative, or the dead sinner remains dead, without God.

So be it.

 

[Alan Gross]

Well if you read the bible God has provided various means of knowing Him. It could be creation or the conviction of the Holy Spirit, hearing the gospel message or just seeing how a Christian neighbor lives. Christ died so that all could be saved but man will only be saved if he trusts in God.

The flip side of your question is "Does Christ force anyone to be saved?" To which the answer would be NO as I am sure you would agree. So your question is true, sinners have the chance to be saved as God will not force anyone to be saved. That is why we have the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the preaching of the gospel etc. God is reaching out to us but we must respond.

Well if you read the bible God has provided various means of knowing Him.

One Way. Jesus is the Savior from the deadness of the lost souls sin natue.

. It could be creation

To condemn, only.

conviction of the Holy Spirit,

To condemn, only.

just seeing a Christian life

To condemn, only.

Christ died so that all could be saved

There is No Double Jeopardy to rail against The Thrice- Holy Just God of the Universe.

 

[Alan Gross]

Well if you read the bible God has provided various means of knowing Him. It could be creation or the conviction of the Holy Spirit, hearing the gospel message or just seeing how a Christian neighbor lives. Christ died so that all could be saved but man will only be saved if he trusts in God.

The flip side of your question is "Does Christ force anyone to be saved?" To which the answer would be NO as I am sure you would agree. So your question is true, sinners have the chance to be saved as God will not force anyone to be saved. That is why we have the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the preaching of the gospel etc. God is reaching out to us but we must respond.

That is why we have the conviction of the Holy Spirit, the preaching of the gospel etc. God is reaching out to us but we must respond.

If the sinner is without God and dead and they have to 'respond', or think they have done this WORK they are Eternally lost, without a Savior.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF LOST SINNERS,
NOT MEN, THEMSELVES, WITHOUT STRENGTH AND WITHOUT CHRIST, IN THE WORLD, WITHOUT HOPE.

 

[tyndale1946]

If the sinner is without God and dead and they have to 'respond', or think they have done this WORK they are Eternally lost, without a Savior.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF LOST SINNERS,
NOT MEN, THEMSELVES, WITHOUT STRENGTH AND WITHOUT CHRIST, IN THE WORLD, WITHOUT HOPE.

I don't worry about what men say... I just go to scripture and find the truth... And if any want to argue they can argue with that... Brother Glen

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[KenH]

As Paul said
1Pe 2:1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking,
1Pe 2:2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby

For the record, Paul did not write 1 Peter. Peter wrote 1 Peter.

 

[Silverhair]

King James Bible
That at that time
1). ye were without Christ,
2.) being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and
3.) strangers from the covenants of promise,
4.) having no hope,
and
5.) without God in the World
Ephesians 2:12

Dead
Ephesians 2:1

You say dead is alive and God says dead is:

1). ye were without Christ,
2.) being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and
3.) strangers from the covenants of promise,
4.) having no hope,
and
5.) without God in the World
Ephesians 2:12

God had to, or has to, take the Initiative, or the dead sinner remains dead, without God.

So be it.

So your saying God is wrong when we are told to
Rom_10:9-10 confess...believe...you will be saved
Act_16:31 Believe on the Lord...you will be saved

Alan you are still confusing spiritual dead and actual dead. Yes God does take the initiative. We have creation, the Holy Spirit, the gospel etc. So what is your problem why do you not trust God to be able to save those He wants in the way He wants?

 

[Silverhair]

One Way. Jesus is the Savior from the deadness of the lost souls sin natue.




To condemn, only.



To condemn, only.



To condemn, only.



There is No Double Jeopardy to rail against The Thrice- Holy Just God of the Universe.

There you are holding to your calvinism again.

 

[Silverhair]

If the sinner is without God and dead and they have to 'respond', or think they have done this WORK they are Eternally lost, without a Savior.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF LOST SINNERS,
NOT MEN, THEMSELVES, WITHOUT STRENGTH AND WITHOUT CHRIST, IN THE WORLD, WITHOUT HOPE.

There you go denying the bible again. Faith is not a work but that is a concept you have failed to grasp. It's in the bible so perhaps you should accept it.

 

[Silverhair]

I don't worry about what men say... I just go to scripture and find the truth... And if any want to argue they can argue with that... Brother Glen

2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Yes God knows all that are His but that verse does not support your deterministic view although you think it does. Now if you would just trust the rest of the bible then you would be on the right track.

 

[Silverhair]

For the record, Paul did not write 1 Peter. Peter wrote 1 Peter.

Well if that is the only thing that you read in that post then that says a lot about you. I guess I am just not as perfect as you are.