did Enoch die ?

I understand this premise held of Enoch not physically dying rests on the doctrine of the rapture of the church so that it doesnt see corruption.

100's of billions of people who have been born and have died and you guys hold on to this one man not physically dying.

just to support your rapture THEORY..

I really do understand why mens imaginations wander so far from common sense.

but reality is reality. all men physically die.

 

Yes. Reality is reality. And here's some reality for you:

Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him

Heb 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Negative. The "theory" doesn't change the truth of God's Word which PLAINLY states that Enoch did not see death, rapture or no rapture. It's really not that difficult.

And equally, I can't figure out why some people stray so far from common sense that they cannot grasp such a black and white statement found in Scripture.

 

Enoch and Elijah did not die a physical death------Yet.

It has been shown by scripture on this thread.

But Enoch and Elijah WILL die; after they come back and preach in the steets of Jerusalem, they are killed and lie in the streets 3 1/2 days.

It's in Rev. ch 11. It doesn't name them but I think that's who the 2 witnesses are.

Peace!



Tam

 

Nope - we hold it because the Bible says it.

God took Enoch so that he should not see death.

Pretty hard to miss.

Elijah also was taken directly to heaven.
2Kings 2

Impossible to miss that one as well.

"We who ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN" 1Thess 4 are caught up together with them in the air. (And of course the THEM in this case are the dead in Christ who are raised )

Very - very difficult to miss.

(Or at least it would take some hard work to miss it).

Each of them true on their own. And all of them true together.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Again---it would be just as easy for Jesus to "speak the word" and Enoch miss death---as it would have been for Jesus to speak the word and Lazarus be called from the dead!!

 

Me2-

You really don't have an argument unless you are willing to argue with the plain teaching of Scripture. Our stand on this is not based on the rapture, our understanding of a future rapture is based on these Scriptures. The same way our belief that Enoch did not die is because the Scriptures says so. Why do you have such a hard time believing that the Bible says these men and many in the future will not physically die.

There is no issue unless you are willing to say that the Scripture does not mean what it says.

Bro Tony

 

There was no man wether it be enoch or elijah who entered into heaven before Jesus christ Resurrection.
thats 4000 years of OT saints who lived and died without entering into heaven.

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.

no man. meaning Jesus was and is the firstborn.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

firstborn from the dead into Eternal life...

Enoch and Elijah are not a part of the Church.
They are OT Saints...

They are not a part of the Elect. They are not a part of The Bride of Christ. They are not a Part of the body of Christ.

They are OT saints and lived under the Old covenant.

Yet, The Lord has not overlooked these saints of Old......

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Shall be saved..future tense.these are those who will be judged at the GWT.

these participate in the 2nd resurrection.

unless you guys are saying "to be translated" means to pass from physical to spiritual without the need for the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Enoch as well as Elijah has to await their turn to pass from death into life. and well if their not dead yet. hhmmm.

all OT saints have physically died and await the second resurrection and their turn to stand before the GWT judgement.

no ones is in heaven now except those spiritually "in Jesus Christ".
all men are awaiting the resurrection of their body at their physical death and the end of this age..
first the elect is bodily resurrected and then those of the OT saints in the second resurrection are bodily resurrected. That includes Moses,Enoch,Elijah... All OT Saints.

no one gets to pass through heaven unless they pass through death, resurrection, and judgement.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Jesus being the first resurrected from death.
Everyone else follows.

1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Christ..His Elect Bride..Everyone else including all OT Saints.

no one was "translated" into heaven before the resurrection of Christ. simple conclusions.

 

Me2---rent you out an "Excavator" and a Bulldozer----and go over every square inch of the Earth's surface----dig all you want to----you ain't gonna find no bones that belonged to Enoch!

 

What's the context of the passage? God took Enoch at that instant and translated him that he did not see death, period. It is not refering to a future second death.

It's not a matter of where God took Enoch to, but whether or not Enoch died as the OP questioned. Scripture is amazingly clear that Enoch did not die. Don't have to read between the lines to understand that simple truth.

Genesis 5:24
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him

Heb 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

 

Heb 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Enoch had a testimony which God was protecting.
"Enoch pleased God".

Enoch found himself before his detractors who desired his death and God transported him from harms way so that his testimony would not be changed.
He was transported away from his detractors sight. they didnt kill Enoch. He didnt see death "by their hands".

He was not found. (by his detractors)

his testimony was kept by God before his detractors that "Enoch pleased God".

God was protecting Enochs testimony


Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

sound familiar?

 

Transported and translated are two different things!!

 

Tell me from one verse in Genesis where did you get all this information. I don't find it in Hebrews either. It seems to me you have to add extrabiblical information to make your point. The Scripture says nothing about his "detractors". You cannot go beyond Scripture to build a biblical doctrine.

Bro Tony

 

Bro Tony,

I use Esword. which contains a strongs, greek lexicon translation

Heb 11:5 By faith4102 Enoch1802 was translated3346 that he should not3361 see1492 death;2288 and2532 was not3756 found,2147 because1360 God2316 had translated3346 him:846 for1063 before4253 his846 translation3346 he had this testimony,3140 that he pleased2100 God.2316

Strongs 3346

From G3326 and G5087; to transfer, that is, (literally) transport, (by implication) exchange, (reflexively) change sides, or (figuratively) pervert: - carry over, change, remove, translate, turn.

God transported Enoch to another location.
and it wasnt heaven...

 

Vs. 13 refer to vs 12 only

 

Wopik said:That is why Moses said God took Enoch. God removed -- translated -- him so he was not found. God took Enoch and buried him.

Tamborine Lady says: You are reading things into the scripture that are not there!

Bible says God TOOK him, not that God BURIED him!!

We must try not to complicate the simple things!!!

Peace,

Tam

 

What?? Where did THAT come from?

 

Buried him alive, eh? The biblical proof is against your doctrine.

 

Again, I must ask where you get this? I also read the information from esword, I still don't see how you come up with your interpretation. Again, no where in Scripture does it say that Enoch died.

Bro Tony