Did Eve Lie To The Serpent?

[JerryL]

The first time the word 'lie' is used in the Old Testament in the context of telling a lie is in Leviticus 19:11.

The Hebrew is translated 'shaqar' and it means

a primitive root; to cheat, i.e. be untrue (usually in words):--fail, deal falsely, lie.

The first time it is used in the New Testament is in John 8:44.

The Greek is translated 'pseudos' and it means

a falsehood:--lie, lying.

Neither definition are translated as saying'telling a untruth with intention to deceive. They just say a falsehood, be untrue, deal falsely, lie.A lie is a lie whether joking around or not.

Actually, the first time it is used in the NT is in James 3:14, since James is the first written NT book.

Jas 3:14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth.

ψεύδομαι
pseudomai
psyoo'-dom-ahee
Middle voice of an apparently primary verb; to utter an untruth or attempt to deceive by falsehood: - falsely, lie.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

It would not make any sense for Eve to try to intentionally deceive the serpent.

If she had, then sin would have been in the world prior to the serpent deceiving her.

deceive by falsehood is just one of the different definitions given for the word 'lie' then.

But that definition would not fit in the case of Eve.

She either lied by adding to the Word of God to strengthen the command not to eat, or God did indeed tell her not to touch it.

I believe it was the latter.

 

[webdog]

I am no theologian but if Eve lied and you think that this is how sin entered the world then Rom. 5:19 is a lie as well. Just a thought??

I always took sin entering the world to mean through procreation. I believe Eve did sin, as sin is the breaking of God's Law...and she did just that.

 

[canadyjd]

The simple statement 'Thou mayest not eat thereof, lest ye die" surely would have been easy for her to remember.

After all, she did quote the same warning, word for word to the serpent, but added 'neither shall ye touch it.

She did not quote the commandment, word for word, as you stated. I think you are missing the word "surely" in your quote (as did Eve: Strange that Satan corrected her while denying the truth of it). Did you make a mistake by leaving
"surely" out of the quote; did you lie? or were you sloppy?

The only commandment they had, at that point, was to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Scripture tells us (as noted earlier) that Eve was deceived.

I have heard preachers say that the moment Eve looked on the fruit and "lusted" after it, that she sinned. Or that the moment she decided to believe the lie of Satan, that she sinned.

Scripture says sin entered the world through the transgression of the commandment not to eat of the fruit.

Anything else is denying the word of God.

peace to youraying:

 

[LeBuick]

The only commandment they had, at that point, was to not eat from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. Scripture tells us (as noted earlier) that Eve was deceived.:

Bingo... This is the way I see it. :thumbs:

I think scripture is clear regarding the first sin and the fall of man...

Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

SFIC, how do you believe Moses received this story? Sme believe it was divinely inspired and others believe these stories were told over time and Moses was just the first to pen it to paper. There are other variations also. How do you believe the story made Hole writ?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Bingo... This is the way I see it. :thumbs:

I think scripture is clear regarding the first sin and the fall of man...

Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

SFIC, how do you believe Moses received this story? Sme believe it was divinely inspired and others believe these stories were told over time and Moses was just the first to pen it to paper. There are other variations also. How do you believe the story made Hole writ?

Apparently some law was around before the ten commandments were given. In Genesis 4 Cain was told if he did good, well. But if not, sin lied at the door.

I can't imagine God thinking Eve did not sin if she said He said something that He didn't say.

 

[LeBuick]

Yes, we know the Priesthood of Melchisedec was in effect after the fall of man;

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

The second part or more direct question to you had to do with how literal we take the early stories like creation, Noah etc...

 

[Steven2006]

"neither shall ye touch it"

I always thought that it could be likely that Adam instructed Eve of that. If so she would have been listening to Adam, and not lying. But we really don't have enough information to be certain on the matter.

 

[LeBuick]

I always thought that it could be likely that Adam instructed Eve of that. If so she would have been listening to Adam, and not lying. But we really don't have enough information to be certain on the matter.

I started to suggest that but then I thought, naw, SFIC will say Adam sinned before eating the fruit so I left it alone. :laugh: :thumbs:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Eve did not say Adam said it. Eve said God hath said.

Whether Adam told her 'neither shall ye touch it' or not, Eve attributed it to being said by God Himself.

But LeBuick is right. If Adam told Eve that and God did not tell him that, then Adam lied to Eve.

Fact remains, Eve said it for a reason. I believe God did tell her that and it was just not recorded.

 

[LeBuick]

God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Eve did not say Adam said it. Eve said God hath said.

Whether Adam told her 'neither shall ye touch it' or not, Eve attributed it to being said by God Himself.

But LeBuick is right. If Adam told Eve that and God did not tell him that, then Adam lied to Eve.

Fact remains, Eve said it for a reason. I believe God did tell her that and it was just not recorded.

Did Eve hear the command directly from God? The command was given in Gen 2:16,17 but verse 18 begins with, "It is not good that the man should be alone;"

If this is correct then the only thing Eve could know is what Adam told her. She didn't hear it first hand.

 

[menageriekeeper]

Guys, I think Canadyjd has this correct. God gave one command only "Don't eat of the tree". That is it.

Now the tree brought knowledge of good and evil. Before eating they (Adam and Eve) had no knowledge, no way of telling that something was wrong or right except that one command of don't eat from that tree. Hence before they ate they had no awareness of being naked (something I believe God included in the Word just for this sort of conversation).

Whether Eve lied or was mistaken is a moot point, because at this point in time, SHE had no comprehension of either. Thus, she was decieved and Adam outright disobeyed.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Did Eve hear the command directly from God? The command was given in Gen 2:16,17 but verse 18 begins with, "It is not good that the man should be alone;"

If this is correct then the only thing Eve could know is what Adam told her. She didn't hear it first hand.

If Eve heard 'neither shall ye touch it' from Adam, she still lied, for she said God said it. This means that lying would have been in the world before the deception and the fall.

 

[JerryL]

I cannot imagine a more ready instrument in the hands of Satan for the ruin of souls than a minister who tells sinners that it is not their duty to repent of their sins or to believe in Christ, and who has the arrogance to call himself a gospel minister, while he teaches that God hates some men infinitely and unchangeably for no reason whatever but simply because he chooses to do so. -- SPURGEON

Off topic, I can't believe you changed your signature to one from a highly Calvinistic Preacher. I'm glad you are finding some good in some of their writings even though you dissagree with their doctrine. :thumbs:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If you read that closely, you will see that Spurgeon was refuting the Calvinistic doctrine of only the elect being saved.

His statement:

I cannot imagine a more ready instrument in the hands of Satan for the ruin of souls than a minister who tells sinners that it is not their duty to repent of their sins or to believe in Christ, and who has the arrogance to call himself a gospel minister, while he teaches that God hates some men infinitely and unchangeably for no reason whatever but simply because he chooses to do so. -- SPURGEON

I do not agree with the Calvinistic teachings that Spurgeon taught, but I certainly do believe this great truth Spurgeon taught on December 11,1859 at the Music Hall, Royal Surrey Gardens.

 

[JerryL]

If you read that closely, you will see that Spurgeon was refuting the Calvinistic doctrine of only the elect being saved.

His statement:

I cannot imagine a more ready instrument in the hands of Satan for the ruin of souls than a minister who tells sinners that it is not their duty to repent of their sins or to believe in Christ, and who has the arrogance to call himself a gospel minister, while he teaches that God hates some men infinitely and unchangeably for no reason whatever but simply because he chooses to do so. -- SPURGEON

I do not agree with the Calvinistic teachings that Spurgeon taught, but I certainly do believe this great truth Spurgeon taught on December 11,1859 at the Music Hall, Royal Surrey Gardens.

He is a staunch Calvinist, you might want to evaluate what he actually meant there. He believed in the doctrine of election. There must be a different context with what he was saying there, or other parts of the sermon that show the rest of the story. I posted part of one of his sermons in the general thread, I guess it shoud be here in the theology thread. If the mods want to move go ahead.

 

[tinytim]

I asked this question a couple months ago on BB...

Good question SFIC....

I also believe that God must have told Eve this....
It just didn't get recorded... Until Eve quoted God.


We can have fun with this.....

God tells man "Don't eat it" .... Man knows not to even go near..
But God tells woman, "Don't eat it... and don't even touch it."... knowing women. LOL

Just like a husband's command ... "Don't buy any more shoes".....
MUST be followed by, "Don't even go near the store"....

Because we know women....

:tonofbricks:

HEY, who through that first brick?!! MK?

 

[canadyjd]

If Eve heard 'neither shall ye touch it' from Adam, she still lied, for she said God said it. This means that lying would have been in the world before the deception and the fall.

We know for certainly that she left out the word "surely" as in "ye shall surely die". There is no need to speculate on that.

menageiekeeper has it right. Whether she intentionally spoke a falsehood (I don't believe that) or was simply misspoke due to Adam's instructions, sloppiness or nervousness at a talking snake, makes no difference. There was NO SIN prior to the fall. Sin entered by the transgression of Adam.

peace to youraying:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

We know for certainly that she left out the word "surely" as in "ye shall surely die". There is no need to speculate on that.

menageiekeeper has it right. Whether she intentionally spoke a falsehood (I don't believe that) or was simply misspoke due to Adam's instructions, sloppiness or nervousness at a talking snake, makes no difference. There was NO SIN prior to the fall. Sin entered by the transgression of Adam.

peace to youraying:

So, you are saying Adam and EVe could have lied all they wanted, one could have killed the other, committed ungodly before she was deceived and it would not have been sin?

I can't buy that.

Sin is sin.

Sin entered by the transgression of Adam

So Eve didn't sin in her disobedience and apparent lying since you say God didn't say 'neither shall ye touch it', but Adam did in his disobedience?

Wouldn't that make God a respector of persons?

 

[Palatka51]

We know for certainly that she left out the word "surely" as in "ye shall surely die". There is no need to speculate on that.

menageiekeeper has it right. Whether she intentionally spoke a falsehood (I don't believe that) or was simply misspoke due to Adam's instructions, sloppiness or nervousness at a talking snake, makes no difference. There was NO SIN prior to the fall. Sin entered by the transgression of Adam.

peace to youraying:

Eve was given Adam's version of God's Word. A whole new meaning to AV. :laugh: