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Did God Allow the President a Second Term?

Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
I am going through Jeremiah on Sunday mornings and Israel has consistently refused to obey God thinking they're alright because they still have the Scriptures and a place to worship. I'm in ch. 25 where God says He is sending them into captivity for 70 years. In verses 8-11, it says,
Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘Because you have not obeyed My words, 9 behold, I will send and take all the families of the north,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will send to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will utterly destroy them and make them a horror and a hissing, and an everlasting desolation. 10 Moreover, I will take from them the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. 11 This whole land will be a desolation and a horror, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
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God calls Nebuchadnezzar his servant and the one whom God will send against the land. It was God's will for Israel to be fully under His hand of judgment. Certainly, old Neb wanted to come to the Land, but he was coming because God told him to come and carry the people of Israel away.

We somehow think that God has lost that power to move people to do whatever He chooses. I can't explain that. But God is either completely in control or as Webdog said,
He is not sovereign and is no different than you or I.
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Because we're uncomfortable with the truth doesn't give us the right to create God in our own image.
 
Tom Bryant

Tom Bryant

Well-Known Member
Alcott said:
Yes or No: Does everything happen because God willed it?
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It wasn't aimed at me, but if I can, let me answer "yes".

Now let me ask you: What actions does God hand over His will to man on? Is it only for the bad things? We don't like the idea that the President was re-elected, so it couldn't have been God's will? What if it was God's will to directly punish the US for the sin of abortion?
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Alcott said:
Yes or No: Does everything happen because God willed it?
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Yes. His will encompasses His decretive and permissive will.

Now let me ask you...is God omniscient, or was He watching the election as we were saying "oh boy, they each have 174 electoral votes with 30% reporting, wonder if the mormon will pull it out"
 
JPPT1974

JPPT1974

Active Member
Site Supporter
Just pray that our leaders will do the right thing. As that starts with healing and growing also of the economy. In which 23M people are out of work. And that jobs will grow slowly yet surely.

I will leave it at that!:1_grouphug:
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
JPPT1974 said:
Just pray that our leaders will do the right thing. As that starts with healing and growing also of the economy. In which 23M people are out of work. And that jobs will grow slowly yet surely.

I will leave it at that!:1_grouphug:
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Not happening. 45 companies announced layoffs in 48 hours. This is just the beginning.
 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
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10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?

11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
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Isaiah 45


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Isaiah 45


45 Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.[/QUOTE]

God is always in control.....there is never a time when he is not in total control.
 
A

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
webdog said:
Yes. His will encompasses His decretive and permissive will.
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If everything that happens happens because he willed it, then there should be no differentiation between "decretive" and "permissive." He willed everything that happens or he didn't.

Now let me ask you...is God omniscient, or was He watching the election as we were saying "oh boy, they each have 174 electoral votes with 30% reporting, wonder if the mormon will pull it out"
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No, he probably hasn't said "oh boy" since the original 'nativity.'
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Alcott said:
If everything that happens happens because he willed it, then there should be no differentiation between "decretive" and "permissive." He willed everything that happens or he didn't.
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False dichotomy. Allowing something is not the same as forcing it. You are on the polar opposite side of hyper calvinism which is just as bad if not worse as it removes all sovereignty from God.



No, he probably hasn't said "oh boy" since the original 'nativity.'
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your answer to is he omniscient is no then?
 
M

michael-acts17:11

Member
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That fact that God is capable of allow man to act in opposition to His will while remaining God is a demonstration of His true sovereignty. His sovereignty is not dependent upon every aspect of creation being micromanaged. God's sovereignty & man's free will are as co-existent as Christ's humanity & deity. I may not understand how two diametrically opposed realities can co-exist, but it is not my job to understand it, only to accept it. To say that God "causes" sin would be heresy. This may fit Mormon theology that God was once a corrupt, sinful man, but it does not fit with the Christian theology that God is the eternal, sinless Creator.


After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:9-10

Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness. Psalm 143:10

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
 
J

jbh28

Active Member
What does the Bible say

Romans 13:1-2 "Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves."

Daniel 2:12 "He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings; he gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who have understanding;"

So Yes to the question according to the Bible

webdog said:
He doesn't need to desire the action to allow it. Fact is if He is not in control, He is not sovereign and is no different than you or I.
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YES!
 
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