Did God have a contract with Satan?

[xdisciplex]

So you think Jesus did not even have to die?

As for Jesus saying why have you forsaken me...
there are also other theories. Jesus was quoting psalm 22.
Some christians believe he only did this to make a connection and to show that this was about him but he was not really separated from God.

 

[BobRyan]

My argument is that Jesus did not have to be brutally treated by sinful men. As already stated the dying process had already started BEFORE any sinful men showed up to abuse and mistreat Jesus.

In the Garden of Gethsemane He was "already" sweating great drops of blood - already tasting death for every man - already standing as our substitute - already suffering - already his soul was "grieved to the point of death" - the process had begun. It was finished on the cross - but it would have eventually been finished in the Garden if left alone. He would have died there.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In other words "all that abuse" was nothing more than sinners sinning. It was not God "abusing Jesus".

It was Satan having HIS way - and sinflu mankind in cooperation with it. It was in place to TURN Christ away from being a willing sacrifice for mankind - but Christ chose to be our substitute IN SPITE of those abusive events.

The RC "Story" has been that God NEEDED those abusive events and that THEY are the means of our salvation the payment God demands.

But God NEVER requires MORE SINNING as the "payment" for sin!

 

[xdisciplex]

But the bible says in Isaiah 53 in his wounds we are healed!
Now what would have happened if Jesus had not had any wounds?
And what about the blood? If Jesus simply had died in the garden of, let's say a heart attack, he would not have shed his blood but the bible says sins need to be washed away with blood!

I also heard the theory that in the garden Jesus was close to dying and he prayed for strength because he felt he was close to dying and then the angel gave him extra strength. This theory indicates that dying in the garden would not have been enough.

 

[BobRyan]

There is no question but that Jesus was crucified and that he was literally cut and literally bled. God knew that from eternity past.

My argument is not that God did not know this or did not prepare for this. My point is that the second death is not "crucifixion by evil men". No one who is raised in the second resurrection to suffer God's penalty for sin in the lake of fire - will be tortured by evil men on a cross. That is not the "payment owed".

I also would not argue that anyone today is literally dipped in blood - Christ's blood --. In John 6 Christ shows the metaphore for flesh and blood without needing anyone to "bite him" literally. (Though Catholics seem to get pretty confused on that point - taking the side of the faithless disciples in John 6 who left thinking they were being told to bite Christ literally).

In Christ,

Bob