Did Jesus Christ Have Free Will?

[tyndale1946]

Ok my Baptist brethren after a war with my computer I'm back and I know this subject of free will, has been hashed around on the board since I joined it but in the nineteen years I've been here I don't recall ever looking at this viewpoint... Did Jesus Christ have free will?... I know that my will unless God changes it, is bound by sin, until God sets it free... Jesus Christ will was also bound, but what was it bound by?... Where would we be if Jesus Christ exercised his free will?... This topic is up for discussion... Brother Glen

 

[Sai]

Jesus is God

 

[JonC]

I believe so. He prayed "not my will but yours", which I believe to be Christ freely choosing submission to the will of the Father rather than fulfilling the desires of the flesh (that the cup pass). This, IMHO, demonstrates a freedom of the will in that Christ was not controlled by His own desires but freely lay down His own life in faithful obedience to the Father even unto death.

 

[tyndale1946]

I believe so. He prayed "not my will but yours", which I believe to be Christ freely choosing submission to the will of the Father rather than fulfilling the desires of the flesh (that the cup pass). This, IMHO, demonstrates a freedom of the will in that Christ was not controlled by His own desires but freely lay down His own life in faithful obedience to the Father even unto death.

Which I agree to Jon... But if according to scripture Jesus Christ submitted himself to the will of the Father, carrying out the Fathers will and not his own... He being bound by love... The love of the Father and all his Father gave him... Then why do men claim they have free will?... As I heard one preacher say back in the day, if Jesus Christ exercised his free will, he could have said Father they are not worth it!... And we are not!... Salvation is not what we will do or not do but what Jesus Christ did for his children, carrying out the will of the Father... A covenant ordained by the three and one Godhead before the foundations of the earth was laid... Now we need two witnesses... OT and NT... Brother Glen

Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[JonC]

Which I agree to Jon... But if according to scripture Jesus Christ submitted himself to the will of the Father, carrying out the Fathers will and not his own... He being bound by love... The love of the Father and all his Father gave him... Then why do men claim they have free will?... As I heard one preacher say back in the day, if Jesus Christ exercised his free will, he could have said Father they are not worth it!... And we are not!... Salvation is not what we will do or not do but what Jesus Christ did for his children, carrying out the will of the Father... A covenant ordained by the three and one Godhead before the foundations of the earth was laid... Now we need two witnesses... OT and NT... Brother Glen

Psalms 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

I guess it depends on how we define "free-will". The debate is ancient (Greek philosophy and "fate" comes to mind).

I do believe we have free-will in that natural man freely wills to follow the flesh and the spiritual man freely wills to follow the Spirit.

John Piper was right (IMHO) that our desires change when we are saved.

But there is also libertarian free-will which refers to uninfluenced will. This is something I believe is false.

Natural man is not bound by his desires (even pagans act against their will to the benefit of others). But natural man is in bondage to sin (I believe this is more than a bondage of the will).

The cases often presented do not involve free-will but the ability to set aside or act outside of one's on will (not my will but thine).

So I guess the first thing needs to be defining "free-will".

 

[HatedByAll]

Yes, Jesus had a free will. The scripture above mentioned by JonC above demonstrates that. But He also had to have a free will to truly be tempted the same way we are tempted by Satan. It would be foolishness to say that He was tempted if He did not have the ability to sin. . .

But the question "Did Jesus have free will" is not the question we need to ask to understand to fully understand the concept. The question to ask is, Did Jesus have Faith? In a way, this can be answered No, because we could argue that Jesus had a perfect knowledge of right and wrong and good and evil. We can say he did not actually have faith because he knew all those things instead of just believing they were so. But if we avoid that argument, we must say that Jesus had a perfected faith from before the beginning of universe.

We are saved because of our Faith. After we are saved we start to do the Will of the Father because we believe that the best thing to do is what He has stated that we should do. And we have the Holy Spirit to help us to have an ever increasing Faith and Knowledge when we exercise our Faith by doing the works that the Father wants us to do. I know this paragraph may be off a little doctrinally, a dissertation could be written on just that subject, but consider what this meant to Jesus. He always had a perfected Faith in God the Father and in the Holy Spirit. There are things that He did not know as a human while on earth, so He may have questioned what was fixing to happen back then, but he did have a perfect knowledge of His heavenly Father, God Almighty. Knowing God and the Goodness of the Father, Jesus's will was the Will of God the Father, because He knew it perfect.

If we knew Father God the same way that Jesus Christ, God the Son, knew him, that is to say we had perfected faith, our will would also be to do the Will of God. Even though we would still have free will, what we would do would be God's Will, not ours too.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ok my Baptist brethren after a war with my computer I'm back and I know this subject of free will, has been hashed around on the board since I joined it but in the nineteen years I've been here I don't recall ever looking at this viewpoint... Did Jesus Christ have free will?... I know that my will unless God changes it, is bound by sin, until God sets it free... Jesus Christ will was also bound, but what was it bound by?... Where would we be if Jesus Christ exercised his free will?... This topic is up for discussion... Brother Glen

Yes, free to always do the will of the Father!

 

[percho]

I believe so. He prayed "not my will but yours", which I believe to be Christ freely choosing submission to the will of the Father rather than fulfilling the desires of the flesh (that the cup pass). This, IMHO, demonstrates a freedom of the will in that Christ was not controlled by His own desires but freely lay down His own life in faithful obedience to the Father even unto death.

I will agree but would like your and others thoughts.

having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

Did Adam the figure of him to come have free will? Could the first man Adam the living soul have been, The Anointed, by his obedience to the will of God?

What was God's will relative to Adam?

 

[Barry Johnson]

Ok my Baptist brethren after a war with my computer I'm back and I know this subject of free will, has been hashed around on the board since I joined it but in the nineteen years I've been here I don't recall ever looking at this viewpoint... Did Jesus Christ have free will?... I know that my will unless God changes it, is bound by sin, until God sets it free... Jesus Christ will was also bound, but what was it bound by?... Where would we be if Jesus Christ exercised his free will?... This topic is up for discussion... Brother Glen

why does free will matter ?

 

[percho]

Yes, Jesus had a free will. The scripture above mentioned by JonC above demonstrates that. But He also had to have a free will to truly be tempted the same way we are tempted by Satan. It would be foolishness to say that He was tempted if He did not have the ability to sin. . .

But the question "Did Jesus have free will" is not the question we need to ask to understand to fully understand the concept. The question to ask is, Did Jesus have Faith? In a way, this can be answered No, because we could argue that Jesus had a perfect knowledge of right and wrong and good and evil. We can say he did not actually have faith because he knew all those things instead of just believing they were so. But if we avoid that argument, we must say that Jesus had a perfected faith from before the beginning of universe.

We are saved because of our Faith. After we are saved we start to do the Will of the Father because we believe that the best thing to do is what He has stated that we should do. And we have the Holy Spirit to help us to have an ever increasing Faith and Knowledge when we exercise our Faith by doing the works that the Father wants us to do. I know this paragraph may be off a little doctrinally, a dissertation could be written on just that subject, but consider what this meant to Jesus. He always had a perfected Faith in God the Father and in the Holy Spirit. There are things that He did not know as a human while on earth, so He may have questioned what was fixing to happen back then, but he did have a perfect knowledge of His heavenly Father, God Almighty. Knowing God and the Goodness of the Father, Jesus's will was the Will of God the Father, because He knew it perfect.

If we knew Father God the same way that Jesus Christ, God the Son, knew him, that is to say we had perfected faith, our will would also be to do the Will of God. Even though we would still have free will, what we would do would be God's Will, not ours too.

I believe through sufferings unto death, Jesus learned, the obedience of faith and became, the faith.

Hebrews 5:7,8 who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience,
Phil 2:8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross,
Hebrews 12:2 looking to the author and perfecter, of the faith -- Jesus, who, over-against the joy set before him -- did endure a cross, shame having despised, on the right hand also of the throne of God did sit down;

I believe the Son of God, became The Faith of God, the Father.

That is, the faith, by which we are saved. IMHO

 

[JonC]

I will agree but would like your and others thoughts.

having known that, not with corruptible things -- silver or gold -- were ye redeemed from your foolish behaviour delivered by fathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and unspotted -- Christ's -- foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

Did Adam the figure of him to come have free will? Could the first man Adam the living soul have been, The Anointed, by his obedience to the will of God?

What was God's will relative to Adam?

I do not believe so. I believe Adam is the "type" or head of natural man. I think God took Adam from where he was created and put Adam in the Garden to ultimately demonstrate that the flesh misses the mark (that man is less than God) and righteousness can only be gained through faith.

In other words, the Law was to Israel what the Garden was to Adam.

That's my view, anyway.

 

[JD731]

Ok my Baptist brethren after a war with my computer I'm back and I know this subject of free will, has been hashed around on the board since I joined it but in the nineteen years I've been here I don't recall ever looking at this viewpoint... Did Jesus Christ have free will?... I know that my will unless God changes it, is bound by sin, until God sets it free... Jesus Christ will was also bound, but what was it bound by?... Where would we be if Jesus Christ exercised his free will?... This topic is up for discussion... Brother Glen

Faith, and it's companion, hope, are earthly principals that are temporal.and have an end. Faith must be exercised when there is a lack of perfect or full knowledge. When one has perfect knowledge he no longer has faith.

Two passages from the wonderful Bible demonstrates this perfectly.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

We have not seen Christ yet: Our knowledge is partial.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greatest because it is eternal and is the operative principle of divine dealing throughout the eternal state when we can see him.

I searched diligently and did not find anywhere that says Jesus did anything by faith and I did not expect to.

 

[kyredneck]

I believe so. He prayed "not my will but yours", which I believe to be Christ freely choosing submission to the will of the Father rather than fulfilling the desires of the flesh (that the cup pass).

Which I agree to Jon... But if according to scripture Jesus Christ submitted himself to the will of the Father, carrying out the Fathers will and not his own...

Read down a little further and ask your selves whose will was subject to whose?:

53 Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?

Christ answered His own question:

54 How then should the scriptures be fulfilled that thus it must be?

'That the scripture might be fulfilled' was a driving force in all of Christ's actions.

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour. Jn 12

(that the cup pass)

FYI, His supplication was heard. The cup was death and the cup did pass. God raised Him from the dead:

7 Who in the days of his flesh, having offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and having been heard for his godly fear, Heb 5

 

[Calminian]

Ok my Baptist brethren after a war with my computer I'm back and I know this subject of free will, has been hashed around on the board since I joined it but in the nineteen years I've been here I don't recall ever looking at this viewpoint... Did Jesus Christ have free will?... I know that my will unless God changes it, is bound by sin, until God sets it free... Jesus Christ will was also bound, but what was it bound by?... Where would we be if Jesus Christ exercised his free will?... This topic is up for discussion... Brother Glen

I think where these generally goes is, could Jesus have sinned? Conversely, could Adam have resisted sin? My answer is, no to the former, yes to the latter.

 

[Calminian]

I do not believe so. I believe Adam is the "type" or head of natural man. I think God took Adam from where he was created and put Adam in the Garden to ultimately demonstrate that the flesh misses the mark (that man is less than God) and righteousness can only be gained through faith.

In other words, the Law was to Israel what the Garden was to Adam.

That's my view, anyway.

This would seem to suggest Adam's sin was inevitable, which would mean he was created a sin nature. I'd have to disagree based on that.

 

[JonC]

This would seem to suggest Adam's sin was inevitable, which would mean he was created a sin nature. I'd have to disagree based on that.

Partly. We would disagree, but not that Adam was created with a din nature, per se.

I think it is important to remember that Adam was not created in the Garden but taken there and given a law.

So to be clear, I do believe that Adam was created with a human nature, that he was created "flesh", and as such that Adam was created with a nature that is less than God's nature. As such Adam fell short of the glory of God in his behavior (Adam sinned).

 

[Yeshua1]

Partly. We would disagree, but not that Adam was created with a din nature, per se.

I think it is important to remember that Adam was not created in the Garden but taken there and given a law.

So to be clear, I do believe that Adam was created with a human nature, that he was created "flesh", and as such that Adam was created with a nature that is less than God's nature. As such Adam fell short of the glory of God in his behavior (Adam sinned).

except that unlike all of us here, Adam was originally created without having a sin nature!

 

[JonC]

except that unlike all of us here, Adam was originally created without having a sin nature!

Could be. I do not think so. I believe Adam was created with a human nature and when God gave a command Adam chose himself rather than God.

 

[Yeshua1]

Could be. I do not think so. I believe Adam was created with a human nature and when God gave a command Adam chose himself rather than God.

He was created, not born, so had no sin nature until the fall!

 

[Calminian]

Could be. I do not think so. I believe Adam was created with a human nature and when God gave a command Adam chose himself rather than God.

Which is a difference without a distinction. In both cases, laws expose one's inevitable nature to sin (the way you're describing it). Hard to call it any other way.