SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Hmmmm. It's not in my dictionary...
Niether the American Heritage Dictionary or the Webster in e-sword...
Bummer...
I should have known, though, as he's been accusing me of twisting scripture for some time now...
SMM
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Did Jesus do away with the Sabbath?
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
Niether the American Heritage Dictionary or the Webster in e-sword...
Bummer...
I should have known, though, as he's been accusing me of twisting scripture for some time now...
SMM
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Guess I need a new dictionary?
My American Heritage drops out after the first four characters... As does my Websters...
I'll have to go through my CD's there's probably another dictionary in there somewhere...
SMM
My American Heritage drops out after the first four characters... As does my Websters...
I'll have to go through my CD's there's probably another dictionary in there somewhere...
SMM
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
When you go to a text with man-made-tradition driving your bias to the point of "reading into the text" the very idea that your tradition "needs" you are eisegeting the text (a verb form of Eisegesis).
The approach you took of simply trying to find a snippet that "sounded" like your POV no matter what the context, no matter what the rules of EXEGESIS that you had to violate - is pure "eisegesis".
In Christ,
Bob
The approach you took of simply trying to find a snippet that "sounded" like your POV no matter what the context, no matter what the rules of EXEGESIS that you had to violate - is pure "eisegesis".
In Christ,
Bob
So redemption is provided by keeping the Sabbath and Christs blood? Is that Ellen G. White taught?
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
OK,
I've had enough...
Is this the pot calling the kettle black?
Accusing me of approaching a topic with preconcieved 'notions' and of 'proof-texting'...
When you are the one actually doing it...
Well you may think my pot is black...
But, at least it's been washed solely in the efficacious Blood of Jesus Christ...
And, if you'd turn up your "light" a little you'd see that it was actually a brilliant Pure Gold...
I rely on Grace... (Alone)
If I offend the Spirit in any way I quickly agree with Him and go on, being only guilty of the one point...
But, Paul said that if you offend the Law in any point (no matter how minor) you are Guilty of all...
So, Bob are you without error concerning the Law?
I seriously doubt it?
Therefore as Paul says you have fallen from Grace and are Guilty of the Entire Law and that Law requires your immediate death...
You can't have it both ways...
You can't start in the Spirit (assuming you ever really did start in the Spirit) and then try to finish in a fleshly pursuit of relying on the law...
Now, you've accused *me* of twisting scripture...
Go judge yourself!
Then assign due penalty according to the law!
But, I will not have *any* man judge me according to this. For, I stand or fall before my Lord Jesus Christ Alone...
SMM
So redemption is provided by keeping the Sabbath and Christs blood? Is that Ellen G. White taught? </font>[/QUOTE]No its what I said.
Let me try to re-explain because it looks like you completely misunderstood what I said.
The Sabbath commandment is the central commandment of all the 10. It REMINDS us every 7th day when we rest on Sabbath that God is our Creator, that He is our sanctifier. That He alone can re-create a new heart within us.
It is in THAT context that I say tha Sabbath is like a "tool" that God uses to keep n our remembrance that He is our Creator.
Thus, it is an "aid" in the process of our salvation... or I shouldve said really in the process of our sanctification, and in our relationship with Him.
If we constantly remember that God is our Creator, then we will realize that we owe Him our allegiance, our lives.
Claudia
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Then why can't we observe every day in our hearts as a Sabbath?
SMM
Then why can't we observe every day in our hearts as a Sabbath?
SMM </font>[/QUOTE]Here are the reasons I see that we cant observe every day as the Sabbath:
1. Because God said the 7th day is the Sabbath
2. The 7th day makes us remember the entire creation and that the seventh day He rested.
3. The 7th Day Sabbath is a "sign" that we are God's people. It was a sign mong the nations that God's people woshipped the tre God, maker of heaven and earth
Ezek:20:12: Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Ezek:20:20: And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
3. Because if you study out the Bible prophecies you will find that the Roman Catholic Church is in Bible prophey identified as "the beast" who among other things, changed the Sabbath to Sunday as the "Mark" of her authority.
"In reply to a letter of October 28, 1895, to Cardinal Gibbons, asking if the church claimed the change of the Sabbath as her mark, the following was received: 'Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act .... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.'-C.F. Thomas, Chancellor."
They, along with apostate Protestantism will persecute those who keep the Commandments. They will legislate the Sunday Law and force all to bow down to the authority of the Beast.
The 7th Day Sabbath is the "sign" in a special sense, that we worship the true God, maker of heaven and earth and that we obey HIM and not the Pope, or any created being. It is the sign of our allegiance to God.
Acts:5:29: Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
4. Because Jesus told us not to change the commandments, following human tradition instead of what God says.
Mk:7:9: And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mt:15:3: But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
5. Because God's people who dont receive the Mark of the Beast are identified as being those who keep the commandments OF GOD... not the commandments of men:
Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rv:14:12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments OF GOD, and the faith of Jesus.
Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do HIS commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
6. In fact, if you look at prophecy concerning the end of the world when God comes out to punish its inhabitants, the very thing He is angry about if that they had no respect for His law and CHANGED THE ORDINANCE:
Isa:24:5: The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
7.
Prophecy says the Beast power would try to "change the times and the laws"
Dan:7:25: And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws
"The Pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret, even divine laws....The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power of binding and loosing the sheep."-From the Prompta Bibliotheca published in 1900 in Rome by the press of the propaganda.
"The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ."-Decretal de Translat, Episcop. Cap.
The pope's will stands for reason. He can dispense above the law, and of wrong make right by correcting and changing laws."-Pope Nicholas, Dis. 96.
****NOTE I must add that people miss the point when they proudly say "well I WORSHIP GOD every day!"
well OF COURSE you do! and so do I
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Well, I hope you're never shipwrecked or sequestered for jury duty and can't make church! 
SMM
SMM
So redemption is provided by keeping the Sabbath and Christs blood? Is that Ellen G. White taught? </font>[/QUOTE]Dear Reverend,
At least be fair. You throw around false accusations.
you know, your criticisms are only your brand of selfrighteous hypocracy.
quoting SMM,
"Then why can't we observe every day in our hearts as a Sabbath?"
God did not ask it; so we would only present strange fire on the altar with the pride of wilfulness.
"Then why can't we observe every day in our hearts as a Sabbath?"
God did not ask it; so we would only present strange fire on the altar with the pride of wilfulness.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You error in supposing that Christ's PRE=Cross STRONG support of HIS OWN Word requires that only sinless people follow Him!
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My commandments"!
Christ IS God!
Christ SAID that GOD's Commandments ARE to be kept!
He did not say "only if you are sinless to start with should you keep my commandments - otherwise just go ahead IN the Spirit -- choose to continue in rebellion against My Word".
Your entire argument falls in John 14:15 alone!
Not to mention that entire reft of NT "KEEP the COMMANDMENTS" list already posted here.
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/3919/2.html?
IN Christ,
Bob
WELL of course, I have an answer for that tooOriginally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
Well, I hope you're never shipwrecked or sequestered for jury duty and can't make church!
SMM
2Cor:8:12: For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
another words if you are unable to attend then God most certainly understands that, after all, John while banished to the Island of Patmos before giving his visions in the book of Revelation said,
Rv:1:10: I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet
the Lord's Day is the Sabbath day.."For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." Matthew 12:8.
so even banished to a desert island one can keep the sabbath... doesnt necesarily have to be in a building with 4 walls.
you know, we true protestants do have Martin Luther on our side.. Luther says the Catholics changed the Sabbath to sunday and called it the Lord's day..
"They allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appear, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." Martin Luther, Augsburg Confession of Faith, art. 28.
At least Martin Luther knew that mattered and was a bad thing!
[ May 13, 2006, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
amen - pronounced "ehmen" not "ahmen" (maybe the arguments on how to say amen is why there's so many different views on what the bible says? lol)
i think i tend to agree with a little bit of what everybody is saying (except for those that say that sabbath is no longer or that sabbath is sunday etc.)
haha.
i think i tend to agree with a little bit of what everybody is saying (except for those that say that sabbath is no longer or that sabbath is sunday etc.)
haha.
Brother Bob
New Member
God also commanded us to work for our families also and keep the Sabbath. A man who don't provide for his family is worse than an infidel and hath already denied the faith.
SpiritualMadMan
New Member
Amen! This happens to be something I harp one rather frequently...
Of course for Saturday Sabbath keepers there may be a bit of a problem in a tight economy if enough employers don't exist who will allow Saturday off..
This also is a problem for Sunday Worshippers, too...
And, Claudia, don't give me any garbage about if the mind is willing as there is nothing in the Law about the mind being willing... (At least not concerning the Sabbath.)
The Law's weakness was it's inability to change the Heart of Man (including man's Mind) and it had no provision for "I really meant to obey".
And, 2 Corinthians 8:12 is specifically about giving...
I'll bet you'd *never* even consider Grace such as thing concerning Tithes and Offerings...
SMM