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Did Jesus do away with the Sabbath?

M

Michaeneu

Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
I find fault with the insistance that the Sabbath be kept in a way that is not consistent with the Law of First Mention; The Ten Commandments; or Jesus...

The insistence of a specific day or form is, IMHO, in error...

And, I strongly protest and deprecate the insistence that I keep the Sabbath the same way that your particular denominations keep the Sabbath...

BTW Mich...

If the Lamb leads you through a field on the Sabbath and tells you to pick and eat even though some denominational sects would call it sin...

Would you follow Him there?

SMM
Click to expand...
SMM, would you clarify you first sentence. I’m not sure what you mean by “first mention” or your use of the semicolon.

Secondly, it’s not my day nor did I choose which day of the week it falls upon. The homage for the aforementioned rests with Yahshua and his Father (Matthew 12:8).

Thirdly, I’m non-denominational but the truth that the Father placed the commandment in the center of the Decalogue has significance. As I already stated, not one of the other commandments has been abolished nor can they; that is the object of moral absolutes. By placing the commandment in the center of the Decalogue it is clear that the Father gave the fourth commandment the same standing as the other nine. This is also stressed by emphasizing that we “remember” it.

Consequently, your protest is against Yahweh, not me, as you suppose.

As to your final issue, clearly you’ve already been corrected on Matthew 12 or Mark 2. Yahshua’s correction concerning the proper observance of the Sabbath is not tantamount to any abolishment whatsoever.

Michael
 
S

SpiritualMadMan

New Member
The Law of First mention, especially when dealing with the Old Testament, basically states that the first mention of something is the foundation and all other mentions are elaboratory...

I never did good on English when it came to building lists properly... (Semi-colons)

The first mention of Sabbath is at Creation when God rested from His Work...

The second mention is in the Ten Commandments and again the emphasis in on Rest as the means of keeping it Holy...

The significance of the Seventh Day in the First Mention is of Completion...

Rest is the Most Important Point of The sabbath
Completion Next
And, then, maybe, the specific day.

As I have stated earlier when Jesus mentioned the Sabbath it was to Liberate us from the Letter of the Sabbath and deliver the Spirit of the Sabbath to us...

I do honor the Sabbath by resting and remembering Jesus...

But, it is not because it is a Commandment.

But, because I agree with my Heavenly Father that I need to take a day off now and then and actually Rest...

As a Music Minister a Sunday Sabbath isn't Rest...

It's Ministry and therefore wouldn't qualify as a Sabbath anyway as I sure don't get much rest when leading a service...


Ever wonder why many Pastors take Monday off?

They need their Sabbath Days Rest!

So, I maintain that you who preach a specific Sabbath Day are in fact not keeping it because it really isn't a day of rest. But, of Service...

And, I doubt very many of you are within a Sabbath days Journey to your House of Worship either...

I know I'm not...

But, thankfully I am under the Spirit not the Letter...

SMM
 
C

Claudia_T

New Member
Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
I find fault with the insistance that the Sabbath be kept in a way that is not consistent with the Law of First Mention; The Ten Commandments; or Jesus...

The insistence of a specific day or form is, IMHO, in error...

And, I strongly protest and deprecate the insistence that I keep the Sabbath the same way that your particular denominations keep the Sabbath...

BTW Mich...

If the Lamb leads you through a field on the Sabbath and tells you to pick and eat even though some denominational sects would call it sin...

Would you follow Him there?

SMM
Click to expand...
MIke, honestly do you do this all the time for DRAMATICS???

Nobody insists you do anything. Are we not allowed to state our views just like you do yours?

I just find it really weird that you keep acting like you are being "attacked" just because somebody says they believe the Bible says we need to keep the commandments.

Are you just doing these theatrics to try to silence us or what??

Most people here tell their views and I dont throw a fit over it acting like they are INSISTING that I believe whatever they believe.

Claudia
 
M

Michaeneu

Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
The Law of First mention, especially when dealing with the Old Testament, basically states that the first mention of something is the foundation and all other mentions are elaboratory...
Click to expand...
Just as I thought, SMM, your “law” is NOT a Law at all but merely a man-made convention. But the issue concerns Biblical precepts or tenets—not the conventions of men.

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
As I have stated earlier when Jesus mentioned the Sabbath it was to Liberate us from the Letter of the Sabbath and deliver the Spirit of the Sabbath to us...
Click to expand...
If what you stated were true then Yahshua would have been in contradiction when he declared:

“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:17-19

The expression “fulfill” is to be discerned and abide with the declaration that Yahshua came NOT to destroy the law, which renders “fulfill” as to confirm or make honorable. Yahshua came to confirm the law and honor it, not to destroy it in contradiction to what your antinomianism suggests.

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
And, I doubt very many of you are within a Sabbath days Journey to your House of Worship either...
Click to expand...
Clearly your limitation on the issue is revealed by your use of a Pharisaical tradition as a commandment of Yahweh. The limitation upon travel was NOT a commandment from Yahweh but a misconstruance of the prohibition to collect manna on the seventh-day (Ex.16:29) in the wilderness—which the Jews used to broaden their authority over the people. Yahshua came to expose these oral traditions as the commandments of men and a heavy yoke upon his people. Yahshua’s yoke is easy and his burden light and the seventh-day Sabbath a pleasure when we do his will.

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
You mean the case Mich was making wasn't an insistence one?
Click to expand...
My upholding of the Sabbath is concomitant with upholding honoring our parents. By placing the fourth commandment in the center of the Decalogue it is clear that the Father gave the commandment the same standing as the other nine. Moreover, he stressed the fourth by emphasizing that we “remember” it. I’m not insisting that anyone honor their parents, but if they say they love Yahweh they shall--even when it is revealed that in some particular they fail. The fourth commandment is no different.

Michael
 
G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Michaeneu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
I find fault with the insistance that the Sabbath be kept in a way that is not consistent with the Law of First Mention; The Ten Commandments; or Jesus...

The insistence of a specific day or form is, IMHO, in error...

And, I strongly protest and deprecate the insistence that I keep the Sabbath the same way that your particular denominations keep the Sabbath...

BTW Mich...

If the Lamb leads you through a field on the Sabbath and tells you to pick and eat even though some denominational sects would call it sin...

Would you follow Him there?

SMM
Click to expand...
SMM, would you clarify you first sentence. I’m not sure what you mean by “first mention” or your use of the semicolon.

Secondly, it’s not my day nor did I choose which day of the week it falls upon. The homage for the aforementioned rests with Yahshua and his Father (Matthew 12:8).

Thirdly, I’m non-denominational but the truth that the Father placed the commandment in the center of the Decalogue has significance. As I already stated, not one of the other commandments has been abolished nor can they; that is the object of moral absolutes. By placing the commandment in the center of the Decalogue it is clear that the Father gave the fourth commandment the same standing as the other nine. This is also stressed by emphasizing that we “remember” it.

Consequently, your protest is against Yahweh, not me, as you suppose.

As to your final issue, clearly you’ve already been corrected on Matthew 12 or Mark 2. Yahshua’s correction concerning the proper observance of the Sabbath is not tantamount to any abolishment whatsoever.

Michael </font>[/QUOTE]You get along on the crutches of 'religion' ... maybe. No, you've stagnated like a near died up mudpool. You cannot even speak of the Lord Jesus freely, like an ordinary Christian would.

No, your's is too strange a legalism and without palet, - and that's a moral absolute!

I would have Jesus as my Friend and personal, LIVING Lord and Saviour - my absolute moral principle, in your terminology - its much easier and enjoyable for such an ordinary human being like me. I cannot attain your standards, thank heavens!
 
G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
The Law of First mention, especially when dealing with the Old Testament, basically states that the first mention of something is the foundation and all other mentions are elaboratory...

I never did good on English when it came to building lists properly... (Semi-colons)

The first mention of Sabbath is at Creation when God rested from His Work...

The second mention is in the Ten Commandments and again the emphasis in on Rest as the means of keeping it Holy...

The significance of the Seventh Day in the First Mention is of Completion...

Rest is the Most Important Point of The sabbath
Completion Next
And, then, maybe, the specific day.

As I have stated earlier when Jesus mentioned the Sabbath it was to Liberate us from the Letter of the Sabbath and deliver the Spirit of the Sabbath to us...

I do honor the Sabbath by resting and remembering Jesus...

But, it is not because it is a Commandment.

But, because I agree with my Heavenly Father that I need to take a day off now and then and actually Rest...

As a Music Minister a Sunday Sabbath isn't Rest...

It's Ministry and therefore wouldn't qualify as a Sabbath anyway as I sure don't get much rest when leading a service...


Ever wonder why many Pastors take Monday off?

They need their Sabbath Days Rest!

So, I maintain that you who preach a specific Sabbath Day are in fact not keeping it because it really isn't a day of rest. But, of Service...

And, I doubt very many of you are within a Sabbath days Journey to your House of Worship either...

I know I'm not...

But, thankfully I am under the Spirit not the Letter...

SMM
Click to expand...
You say a lot of things that aren't to befound in the Bible - it's all your own stuff. Now that's legalism, the worst of legalism and can never be 'obedience', or 'faith' - It's your own wilfulness and fancy that doesn't "honour the Sabbath", but desecrates it. Not the Father or the Son has asked you for it and I'm sure they won't appreciate it.
 
M

Michaeneu

Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
You get along on the crutches of 'religion' ... maybe. No, you've stagnated like a near died up mudpool. You cannot even speak of the Lord Jesus freely, like an ordinary Christian would.

No, your's is too strange a legalism and without palet, - and that's a moral absolute!

I would have Jesus as my Friend and personal, LIVING Lord and Saviour - my absolute moral principle, in your terminology - its much easier and enjoyable for such an ordinary human being like me. I cannot attain your standards, thank heavens!
Click to expand...
Gerhard, you might have made a lick of sense if it was MY “standard” that I was upholding, but it’s NOT; I’m upholding the Decalogue—not my own standard. And as far as legalism goes, other than upholding the seventh-day as the proper day to observe the Sabbath I haven’t written another nuance about HOW to observe the Sabbath; so your accusations of legalism stem from ignorance of true legalism—or you're bearing false witness. BTW, that’s the problem with all this false witnessing concerning legalism. I haven’t read one post from those who uphold the Sabbath on observing it other than the day the fourth commandment prescribes—that’s not legalism, plain and simple.

Moreover, its gross blindness to even infer that one can NOT observe the seventh-day Sabbath according to the fourth commandment—in RIGHTEOUSNESS! In truth, this was exactly one of Yahshua’s purposes at his first advent: he came to show that the law could be fulfilled or entirely kept in RIGHTEOUSNESS by walking after the spirit and NOT the flesh—the latter being legalism.

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” Romans 8:3-4

That would include the seventh-day Sabbath also.

As for moral absolutes, one can generalize on them all they want by representing them as “friendship with Jesus”, but that does not address precisely what they are! Moral absolutes stem from Yahweh and He made them quite clear by codifying them on tables of stone with the intent of ultimately putting them upon the heart and writing them upon the mind because of what Yahshua accomplished.

“Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them…” Hebrews 10:15-16

My upholding of the Sabbath is concomitant with upholding honoring our parents. By placing the fourth commandment in the center of the Decalogue it is clear that the Father gave the commandment the same standing as the other nine. Moreover, he stressed the fourth by emphasizing that we “remember” it. I’m not insisting that anyone honor their parents, but if they say they love Yahweh they shall—even when it is revealed that in some particular they fail. The fourth commandment is no different.

Michael
 
G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by Michaeneu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
You get along on the crutches of 'religion' ... maybe. No, you've stagnated like a near died up mudpool. You cannot even speak of the Lord Jesus freely, like an ordinary Christian would.

No, your's is too strange a legalism and without palet, - and that's a moral absolute!

I would have Jesus as my Friend and personal, LIVING Lord and Saviour - my absolute moral principle, in your terminology - its much easier and enjoyable for such an ordinary human being like me. I cannot attain your standards, thank heavens!
Click to expand...
Gerhard, you might have made a lick of sense if it was MY “standard” that I was upholding, but it’s NOT; I’m upholding the Decalogue—not my own standard. And as far as legalism goes, other than upholding the seventh-day as the proper day to observe the Sabbath I haven’t written another nuance about HOW to observe the Sabbath; so your accusations of legalism stem from ignorance of true legalism—or you're bearing false witness. BTW, that’s the problem with all this false witnessing concerning legalism. I haven’t read one post from those who uphold the Sabbath on observing it other than the day the fourth commandment prescribes—that’s not legalism, plain and simple.

Moreover, its gross blindness to even infer that one can NOT observe the seventh-day Sabbath according to the fourth commandment—in RIGHTEOUSNESS! In truth, this was exactly one of Yahshua’s purposes at his first advent: he came to show that the law could be fulfilled or entirely kept in RIGHTEOUSNESS by walking after the spirit and NOT the flesh—the latter being legalism.

“For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” Romans 8:3-4

That would include the seventh-day Sabbath also.

As for moral absolutes, one can generalize on them all they want by representing them as “friendship with Jesus”, but that does not address precisely what they are! Moral absolutes stem from Yahweh and He made them quite clear by codifying them on tables of stone with the intent of ultimately putting them upon the heart and writing them upon the mind because of what Yahshua accomplished.

“Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them…” Hebrews 10:15-16

My upholding of the Sabbath is concomitant with upholding honoring our parents. By placing the fourth commandment in the center of the Decalogue it is clear that the Father gave the commandment the same standing as the other nine. Moreover, he stressed the fourth by emphasizing that we “remember” it. I’m not insisting that anyone honor their parents, but if they say they love Yahweh they shall—even when it is revealed that in some particular they fail. The fourth commandment is no different.

Michael </font>[/QUOTE]I believe the Seventh Day Sabbath - the Lord's Day.
That is NOT believing the Seventh Day Sabbath - the Jews' and Legalist's day.

I Don't oppose the Law - I oppose the Law versus Jesus Christ!

But this post of mine you herewith quoted, was actually intended for this name-laboriousness - what should one call it - of yours? 'Yashua'? Why not the "Name given under (ALL) heavens", in every tongue and amongst every people, 'Jesus'? 'Yahweh'? Why not 'God' and 'Lord' as simple ordinary believers got to know Him Who Himself revealed Himself to them - my personal Frien and Companion through every moment of life - this absolutely earthly life ... I don't know the SOUND of the words you use for Him. It's so forced!
 
G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
Answering Michael,

What is this ...?

"Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them…” Hebrews 10:15-16"

It is FAITH, but faith in JESUS CHRIST - no less, no more, exclusively, Jesus Christ! He, is the Law Anew, the NEW Commandment, the WORD of God in the heart and mind and life and worship of the Christian man, the freeman, FOR, Christ. The same as for the Seventh Day Sabbath. WHY SHOULD I OR ANYONE KEEP THE SABBATH IF NOT FOR AND BY REASON OF JESUS CHRIST? - Away with any other Sabbath even if the Seventh Day Sabbath - if not by and for Jesus Christ. What should I still call in the help of the Ten Commandments if Jesus Christ provided everything?
 
G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
The saddest, Michael, is that you modern day 'Yahwists' (Unitarians) don't even believe the Divinity of Jesus Christ, yet insist on the use of the Divine Name the way YOU, say it should look and sound (presumably) because divine.
 
G

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Active Member
Site Supporter
And the most confusing, is that you so place emphasis on the Law, but maintain you worship Christ - who, according to you - is not God. Would that not be disregarding the Commandment that no other God should be worshipped?
 
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