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Gekko give me a bit. A lot of the sights I need are blocked. I am at work.
Well, as much as I know I am going to get flamed for saying. I have enjoyed making my own fermented drink for years. Mostly beer but geting into wine. Beer is much harder to make. I dont drink alot, it is mostly the process of making that I enjoy. Kind of like a chef that is on a diet.
I agree, we have to be careful. Also realising that no matter what we do some will say it is bad some will say it is good. I have talked to people who dont want anything to do with Christianity because they dont see anything wrong with having a beer. I explain that I also do not with one beer but I do with geting drunk. Alot of people think this is very reasonable and it opens some doors. Some like SFiC just think beer is devil in a can. I just watch where I am at and who I am with and do my best.
Oh I strongly disagre. I enjoy the taste of wine and beer. Wine is more a hobby then a beverage no drink has more complexety then wine. You can taste small hints of this ingedient or that flavor. It tastes different with different foods. It is much more then just a way to wet your mouth. And getting drunk would ruin all of it because you could not taste anymore. I enjoy a glass with no intention of getting drunk or even close to it.
Correct. Especaly at 250 pounds with a full stomach. Not even close to drunk.
de·na·ture (d-nchr)
The reason it uses the word denature, meaning change, is because it changes the yeast by killing it. It does not elimenate it. Yeast is a live organism and its body is left in the wine after the alcohol kills it. So it is denatured (killed) not eliminated.
Technically incorrect.
Denaturation is usually how microbiologists describe what happens to proteins and nucleic aces in presence of environmental changes that result in a change in the shape that destroys their normal activity. Environmental changes that do this include heat, pH, alcohol, ions, salts and others.
There are many disinfectants that we ingest on a regular basis.
And there are a lot more times where the bible says that wine/strong drink is good. Of course there are also many times where drunkeness and abuse of alcohol is bad.
I take phrases like "its just amazing how much people justify themselves in this subject." as a personal attack, as if you were saying that we make the Bible fit our "sinfulness". I did not attack you. If you claim "wading in ignorance" is a personal attack, forgive me.
Charles, it’s not true that wine was the only beverage that would not spoil. I’ve read where ancient peoples had several methods of preserving fruits and juices. Some of the classic Roman writers lay out those methods in their agricultural writings. They new how to preserve grape juice to keep it from fermenting through filtering and pasteurization. Welches does the same thing today.
Charles, when we use the word “cider” today, it can refer to fermented or unfermented juice. It’s a fact that the Bible uses the word “oinos” , or it’s Hebrew equivalent “yayin” to refer to both the juice while it’s still in the cluster and to the wine after it’s fermented. It’s like many other words in the Bible, whose true meaning has to be determined by how it’s used in context. Years ago in some of the older English dictionaries, wine was used in the same way that cider is today, refering to both fermented and unfermented.
I think that boiling and filtering removes the abuminous subsatnces from the grape juice, preventing fermentation. I’m not sure the forbiden leaven applied to the juice anyway, didn’t it fefer to the “unleavened bread”? It was only a sympol, meaning to remove sin from our lives, wasn’t it?
The term “well aged wine” is not in the original languages at all. No word is in the Hebrew for “well aged” and the Hebrew word for wine “yayin” is not there either. Instead, the word in the Hebrew translated “well aged wine” in modern translations, and “wine on the lees” KJV, is the word “shemer”. This means” something preserved”, or “the settlings. This is the definition given in Strongs dictionary. The settlings can refer to the fresh grape produce after the juice has been trodded and pressed out of the grape, or it can refer to the “dregs” settled to the bottom when making wine. Raisins, syrups, and jellies were made from the fresh produce, and the juice was filtered and preserved. Dregs were of course spoiled and discarded from the bottom of the wine container, being unfit for consumption. The question is, Is that feast given by the Lord going to consist of fresh juice, grapes, syrups, and jellies, or alcoholic wine with it’s “dregs”. Alcoholic wine was often mentioned by the Old Testament prophets as something the Lord would give as punishment to disobedient Israel, straight down to the dregs.
For seven days no leaven shall be found in your houses, since whoever eats what is leavened, that same person shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a stranger or a native of the land.