Did Jesus ever kill anyone?

[Jarthur001]

I misspoke, I meant to say he is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. better?__________________

One God but three distinct parts. Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Hold on....
Before I start...is there anything you want to add to this statement?

 

[LeBuick]

Jesus may have imposed limits upon himself, but he was no less God because of it, and was no less in control. If you don't believe me, just check out his answer to Pilate's arrogant proclamation that he had the power to kill him and set him free. Something about him being able to call down legions of angels at any moment and his kingdom not being of this world.

Joseph Botwinick

Being flesh is a limitation. He gave up a lot to become flesh and dwell among men including when his second coming would be (Matthew 24:36).

Interesting question, Lucifer knew the second part of the God head from when he lived on high. Why did he tempt Jesus in the wilderness? Keep in mind, he did not tempt Job until the protective hedge was removed.

 

[Brother Bob]

Now, please answer as directly as possible. Do you believe the Spirit of God left Jesus the man on the cross before He died?

I really don't understand your question. He couldn't die until the Spirit left Him so when He gave up the Ghost then He was dead and God was gone.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Being flesh is a limitation. He gave up a lot to become flesh and dwell among men including when his second coming would be (Matthew 24:36).

Interesting question, Lucifer knew the second part of the God head from when he lived on high. Why did he tempt Jesus in the wilderness? Keep in mind, he did not tempt Job until the protective hedge was removed.

The King of Babylon never tempted Job nor Jesus and was never in heaven.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Marcia]

LeBuick, you never answered my question. Do you believe that Jesus was fully God (never set aside his deity) and fully man while on earth.

Just because he set aside some of his divine knowledge, at least for the moment (as in Mk 13.32), there is no indication he set aside his deity. Sure, he thirsted, suffered, got tired because he was fully human and in a body. But at the same time, he was fully God. Do you agree????

 

[Brother Bob]

Hold on....
Before I start...is there anything you want to add to this statement?

I hope you get it this time for last time I am typing it.
One Godhead but a trinity Father, Son and Holy Ghost and all are equal.

 

[Marcia]

Okay, I"m a little shocked that on a Baptist only forum we have what seem to be modalist statements from 2 people, and a statement from someone else that implies Jesus was not fully God while on earth. I think this needs to be clarified.

 

[LeBuick]

Are you saying the Spirit of Christ (God) left Jesus (the man) when He was nailed to the cross?

peace to youraying:

No sir, not when nailed, when he died. Father, I commend my spirit....

You implying the spirit of Christ was laid in a borrowed grave?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Marcia,

Tell me. Who are the 2 people and what do you mean?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Marcia]

One Godhead but a trinity Father, Son and Holy Ghost and all are equal.

Okay, that is better. I assume you are meaning 3 Persons in the one Godhead. Whew! :thumbs:

Still need to hear from DeeJay - his post was very modalistic.

 

[Brother Bob]

LeBuick, you never answered my question. Do you believe that Jesus was fully God (never set aside his deity) and fully man while on earth.

Just because he set aside some of his divine knowledge, at least for the moment (as in Mk 13.32), there is no indication he set aside his deity. Sure, he thirsted, suffered, got tired because he was fully human and in a body. But at the same time, he was fully God. Do you agree

He set aside more than that for He had to pray to the Father to raise Lazareth. He said Father Glorify me again, as I was when I was with thee. Also, God can't die but He did. Scripture says He was made a little lower than the angels that should tell you that He left something behind.

Now Spiritually He was the same and part of the Godhead and equal in power but the flesh got in the way at times. Like when He was tempted of the devil for 40 days and nights.

 

[El_Guero]

I believe that our brothers are trying to confess orthodox Christian belief.

I for one, accept their confession. Just as Athanasius would have said,

"We worship one God in trinity, and trinity in unity, neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For the person of the Father is one; of the Son, another; of the Holy Spirit, another. But the divinity of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit is one, the glory equal, the majesty equal. Such as is the Father, such also is the Son, and such the Holy Spirit. The Father is uncreated, the Son is uncreated, the Holy Spirit is uncreated. The Father is infinite, the Son is infinite, the Holy Spirit is infinite. The Father is eternal, the Son is eternal, the Holy Spirit is eternal. And yet there are not three eternal Beings, but one eternal Being. So also there are not three uncreated Beings, nor three infinite Beings, but one uncreated and one infinite Being."

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Okay, that is better. I assume you are meaning 3 Persons in the one Godhead. Whew! :thumbs:

Still need to hear from DeeJay - his post was very modalistic.

What does the word Modalistic mean?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[LeBuick]

By fully, I mean that Jesus never set aside his deity - never. While on earth, he was fully God and fully man.

The verse in Mk 13 is debated, but I, along with others, think that it means that Jesus may have set aside his divine ability to know all things at certain points on earth for certain reasons. To set aside some of his divine abilities does not mean he set aside deity.

I agree with this except for the word may. It's not may, he did according to his own words.

I believe he does know the time of the above now.

Correct, he knows now but not while he "lived" as Jesus.

 

[Marcia]

What does the word Modalistic mean?

Joseph Botwinick

Modalism is the denial of the Trinity and the belief that God appears at different times as God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS. In other words, Jesus is God the Father, God the Father is the HS, the HS is Jesus, etc. There is no distinction in the Persons. This was called Sabellianism in the 3rd century and denounced as heresy. Oneness Pentecostals hold this view.

 

[El_Guero]

Joseph,

Modalism means that there is one god, one flesh, one person. And that god put on a flesh and came down to earth - there was no god in heaven at that time. When Jesus spoke to the Father, they say that was only a rhetorical device (famcy speaking) to impress us ignorant humans.

Of course, they always have an issue explaining how god is dead, yet able to raise himself from the dead - if he is really dead.

IMHO

 

[LeBuick]

What do you mean by "born out of time"?

peace to youraying:

That Jesus has a birthday but Christ does not. There is a day (some call it christmas) in time when Jesus came to be. Prior to that time Jesus did not exist. Christ did but not the flesh which is called Jesus.

 

[canadyjd]

No sir, not when nailed, when he died. Father, I commend my spirit....

You implying the spirit of Christ was laid in a borrowed grave?

Of course not, but your prior post said the Spirit could not be nailed to the cross, which prompted my question. Thanks for clarifying.

peace to youraying:

 

[npetreley]

LOL!!! This thread really cracks me up. 14 pages of paranoia about modalism, etc., all because one person is desperately looking for ways to keep Jesus separate enough from the Godhead that he doesn't have to apologize to Joseph for accusing him of saying Jesus is a murderer.

What really cracks me up is the "murderer" part has disappeared as if it never existed. No apology for that, but nobody cares anymore. Now it's down to "did Jesus kill"? Yet he still has to find every verse in the Bible that makes Jesus sound separate from God so he can avoid having to apologize. And everyone else is jumping in and stirring it up, questioning each others' views of the trinity.

What a circus.

​

 

[Marcia]

Originally Posted by DeeJay
God presents Himself as three seperate personages that are one being.

Jesus and the Father are the same being even if He has the power to be different forms in different places in the same time.

It really dosent matter when Christ was first called Jesus. Jesus Christ is God the same God that is the Father and it has been that way for all eternaty.

I responded:

This sounds exactly like modalism!

DeeJay, say it ain't so! You do believe in the Trinity, right? One Godhead but 3 distinct (not separate), co-equal, co-eternal Persons.

God the Father is not God the Son - Jesus is not God the Father.

DeeJay, hope you clear this up! Maybe you're offline but hope you get to this tomorrow.

Thanks. :flower: