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Did Jesus ever kill anyone?

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Brother Bob

New Member
Why? do you think the Scripture says "who hath known the mind of God and who hath been His councelor? :)

I didn't read it just thought you were giving us the correct way to explain it. I removed it.
 
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El_Guero

New Member
Jesus = Christ. Christ is Yeshua (Jesus) in Greek. Yeshua is Savior (the Messiah).

So where do you get a fancy, Jesus was born from?

Sounds like traditional mormon theology (about 2 centuries old). IMHO.
 

LeBuick

New Member
Joseph_Botwinick said:
The King of Babylon never tempted Job nor Jesus and was never in heaven.

Joseph Botwinick

Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

You sure?
 

Joseph_Botwinick

<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
LeBuick said:
Is 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

You sure?

Yep!

3 On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and turmoil and cruel bondage, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury [a] has ended!

5 The LORD has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
8 Even the pine trees and the cedars of Lebanon
exult over you and say,
"Now that you have been laid low,
no woodsman comes to cut us down."
9 The grave [b] below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones—
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
"You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us."
11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.
12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [c]
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."
15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit.
16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a desert,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?"
18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.
The offspring of the wicked
will never be mentioned again.
21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons
for the sins of their forefathers;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities.
22 "I will rise up against them,"
declares the LORD Almighty.
"I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants,"
declares the LORD. 23 "I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,"
declares the LORD Almighty

Sometimes, context is everything.

Joseph Botwinick
 
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El_Guero

New Member
Bob

Oneness, Modalism, and Sabellianism are all good words to not be able to remember ...

Jesus is Lord - is a great word to remember!
 

Marcia

Active Member
LeBuick said:
That Jesus has a birthday but Christ does not. There is a day (some call it christmas) in time when Jesus came to be. Prior to that time Jesus did not exist. Christ did but not the flesh which is called Jesus.

I think you're saying Christ is eternal and that Jesus is the name we associate with the incarnation of Christ. But Jesus and Christ are the same person. Christ just means "the Messiah" and "the anointed one." Jesus is the Messiah. As to whether we could say Christ has a birthday or not - I guess we would have to say yes, since he incarnated as Jesus and they are the same person. But Jesus Christ has no beginning - the incarnation was Christ adding humanity to himself.

So, Jesus Christ does not have a beginning, but the incarnation did take place at a certain point in history.

Be careful not to sound like Jesus and Christ are different - this is taught by a lot of New Agers (particularly Episcopal priest Matthew Fox) who believe that Christ is a "Christ spirit" (i.e., Christ consciousness) that can be taken on or achieved/realized by different beings at various points in history.
 

LeBuick

New Member
Marcia said:
Modalism is the denial of the Trinity and the belief that God appears at different times as God the Father, God the Son, and God the HS. In other words, Jesus is God the Father, God the Father is the HS, the HS is Jesus, etc. There is no distinction in the Persons. This was called Sabellianism in the 3rd century and denounced as heresy. Oneness Pentecostals hold this view.

I believe 100% in the trinity but pay close attention to this verse

Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus is the son of God according to the Bible.
 

LeBuick

New Member
El_Guero said:
Joseph,

Modalism means that there is one god, one flesh, one person. And that god put on a flesh and came down to earth - there was no god in heaven at that time. When Jesus spoke to the Father, they say that was only a rhetorical device (famcy speaking) to impress us ignorant humans.

Of course, they always have an issue explaining how god is dead, yet able to raise himself from the dead - if he is really dead.

IMHO

This view also ignores the voice from heaven at Jesus Baptism because of the differences of how the Gospel writers recorded the incident. I believe Jesus prayed to the Father while he was here on earth.
 

Marcia

Active Member
LeBuick said:
I believe 100% in the trinity but pay close attention to this verse

Jn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Jesus is the son of God according to the Bible.

Why should I pay close attention to this verse?

Jesus was saying the HS would come after He left. It does not mean that Jesus and the HS cannot exist as the same time. I hope you are not saying that.

When Jesus was baptized, the HS descended "like a dove."
 

Brother Bob

New Member
I don't want to be led off either. I believe in One Godhead but I believe in The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost and these three or trinity make up the Godhead. I hope this meets with your approval but whether it does or not its what I believe.
 

Marcia

Active Member
El_Guero said:
Bob

Oneness, Modalism, and Sabellianism are all good words to not be able to remember ...

Jesus is Lord - is a great word to remember!

I heartily disagree. We need to know these words and concepts because we are told to watch out for false teachings and to be discerning. Knowing these things also helps to clarify biblical belief.
 

AresMan

Active Member
Site Supporter
Clarification

1. No one here is saying that "Jesus" (God in the flesh during the specific period of time on earth) killed anyone between 2 B.C. and A.D. 31 (if that is Gregorianly correct).

2. When Joseph says that "Jesus" killed people, he is talking about the Person of God who took on flesh as "Jesus", and saying that this same Personality is responsible for the deaths of the Egyptians, Ananias and Sapphira, and several others. Can this be an accurate assumption?

Remember, "God" in the Old Testament is often the Hebrew word Elohim which is a collective plural. Just like cherub is singular and cherubim is a collective plural (like a uint). This word is great for describing the Trinity.

Gen 1:26-27
26 And God [Elohim] said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
By the way, it certainly does look like God killed the Egyptians. This was no freak accident:

Exo 14:19, 24-28
19 And the angel of God [Elohim], which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians,
25 And took off their chariot wheels, that they drove them heavily: so that the Egyptians said, Let us flee from the face of Israel; for the LORD fighteth for them against the Egyptians.
26 And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians, upon their chariots, and upon their horsemen.
27 And Moses stretched forth his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to his strength when the morning appeared; and the Egyptians fled against it; and the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea.
28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.
Who was the LORD (Jehovah) here? We sometimes just think God the Father in the Old Testament, but somehow I think that the whole Godhead is in on everything unless otherwise specified.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] our God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah]:
If you try to distinguish the personality of God in the Old Testament (One who did kill many people) from God the Son as incarnate in the New Testament (and Who will come as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and kill many), then it seems somewhat Zoorastrian. I know this is not what you intend, but this is of what it reminds me.
 

LeBuick

New Member
El_Guero said:
Jesus = Christ. Christ is Yeshua (Jesus) in Greek. Yeshua is Savior (the Messiah).

So where do you get a fancy, Jesus was born from?

Sounds like traditional mormon theology (about 2 centuries old). IMHO.

I got it from the Bible, it says and the word BECAME flesh...

also,
Lk 2:11*For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Marcia said:
I heartily disagree. We need to know these words and concepts because we are told to watch out for false teachings and to be discerning. Knowing these things also helps to clarify biblical belief.

I totally agree with you both. It is good for Christians to be able to articulate their beliefs accurately and clearly. Cults will often use "Christian speak" to state their beliefs, with slight changes in words that many Christians frankly don't understand the ramifications of.

We must know what we believe and why. We then must be able to recognize error when it raises its ugly head, and chop it off before it leads someone astray.

I don't think anyone here ascribes to modalism, but we must be careful with the language we use.

peace to you:praying:
 

LeBuick

New Member
Joseph_Botwinick said:
Yep!



Sometimes, context is everything.

Joseph Botwinick

I have no idea what you're trying to show me. What exactly did you want me to see? Would it help if I said satan instead of Lucifer?
 

Brother Bob

New Member
1. No one here is saying that "Jesus" (God in the flesh during the specific period of time on earth) killed anyone between 2 B.C. and A.D. 31 (if that is Gregorianly correct).
What was said is that Jesus killed people with no distinction made. After several attempts to get Joseph to drop it He would not and even today after the other thread was shut down, He started this one and used my name and called me a liar several times to which He has made no acknowledgement at all. So, don't try painting a rosy picture now for Joseph.
 

Joseph_Botwinick

<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
Well,

I have to go to bed so I can get up and go to work tommorow. I won't be on hardly at all tommorow, so don't get too carried away with this thread. Bob,

If you do choose to apologize for lying about me and what I said, make sure you PM me a link so that I can make sure and see it. Perhaps, we can restore some mutual respect and friendship as a result. As of right now, however, there is really none left as far as I am concerned.

Good night,

Joseph Botwinick
 

Joseph_Botwinick

<img src=/532.jpg>Banned
LeBuick said:
I have no idea what you're trying to show me. What exactly did you want me to see? Would it help if I said satan instead of Lucifer?

No. Not really. I was attempting to show you that the context of the passage doesn't lend the interpretation that you are trying to read into it. Read the highlighted part at the beginning of the passage.

Good night,

Joseph Botwinick:sleep:
 
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