Did Jesus go to hell when he died?

Clearly those who are now "Asleep" are "The Dead in Christ" but at the 2nd coming "We who are alive" will join with them - for the Dead in Christ will rise first and THEN we will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the Air.

These are statements made AFTER the resurrection of Christ and they show along with your statement below about Matt 27 that their condition is the SAME in 1Thess 4 - and in the future Paul describes in 1Thess 4 - AND in the Matt 27 past.

I don't see Matt 27 saying anything at all about "hell". In fact they are in no more "hell" than are those saints in 1Thess 4 who are raised at the 2nd coming future event Paul describes.

In Christ,

Bob

 

"He descended into hell. On the third day He rose again."

The word hell in the Creed is an ancient usage which denotes not a place of punishment, but the abode of the dead. To say that Jesus descended into hell means that he truly died to be with those holy souls who were awaiting the fullness of life. His death made it possible for them and for people of every age to attain perfect happiness in heaven.

(Above quote from Oscar Lukefahr, C.M.)

 

Well, "not the Bible" but at least "a source".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Keep in mind what that "Real name" uses represented. The Jews saw Abraham as their "Father", and when you look at Abraham's role in the story, it is like the Father, as he is the one the man appeals to, and is also the one who in a sense reads his verdict (why he is there. All of his sins aren;t mentioned, but then all of his sins weren;t the point of the story). Abraham also is portatryed as the one who receives Lazarus into Heaven. But only God is the Judge; so he, like "the sower" and others, was being used to represent God.

If you look at the real MESSAGE of this passage, Jesus is warning the Jews about their rejection of Him. They are represented by the rich man, and gentiles or Samaritans are represented by Lazarus. Compare him with the Canaanite in Matt.15:26,27. Gal.3:29 shows that these people can become "Abraham's seed" --an intimate relationship with him as HEIRS, represented by his "bosom".

This passage is summed up by what He told them earlier: (ch.13:28,29; here's Matthew's version: "Many shall come from the east, west, north, and south and shall sit down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven [Lk.: "God"]; but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness; There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."(Matt.8:11,12). See also Matt.21:31. This parable was fulfilled, because later when Jesus actually did raise Lazarus from the dead, sure enough, the Jewish leaders (the rich man's "brothers") didn't believe. (John 11, 12).

 

For the record, Jesus NEVER went to hell. This is a false doctrine of the Word of Faith & Charismatic movement. Jesus said to the thief next to him on the cross "TODAY you will be with me in paradise."

Luk 23:43

(CEV) Jesus replied, "I promise that today you will be with me in paradise."

(Darby) And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


(ESV) And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

(GB) Then Iesus said vnto him, Verely I say vnto thee, to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.

(GNB) Jesus said to him, "I promise you that today you will be in Paradise with me."

(KJV) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

(LBLA) Entonces El le dijo: En verdad te digo: hoy estarás conmigo en el paraíso.

(MSG) He said, "Don't worry, I will. Today you will join me in paradise."

(SRV) Entonces Jesús le dijo: De cierto te digo, que hoy estarás conmigo en el paraíso.

(SSE) Entonces Jesús le dijo: De cierto te digo, que hoy estarás conmigo en el paraíso.

(WEB) Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

(YLT) and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

 

Correct. He would have entered Sheol (in Greek, Hades). Many NT translations translate the word Hades as hell, but Hell as we know it is Gehenna, not Hades. This is more a matter of the translational limitations of going from Greek to English.

I dunno 'bout that. This is far from a WoF issue. Many Christians incorrectly presume that Jesus went to Gehenna, based simply out of honest ignorance of the Greek-English translational issue. It's a matter easily rectified by understanding the Greek, but since it is of such brief mention in the NT, it's not touched upon much in depth in churches.

 

"lower parts of the earth" is a reference to the "womb" or the "grave" according to Psalms.

 

FIrst, it's not a part of Hell, at all. At best, it would be part of Sheol. I believe that, when Jesus was referring to Abraham's bosom, he was referring to the faithful who died and went to Sheol. Abraham's bosom may alegorically be a state in which the dead would be free from punishment. (it doesn't really matter to us, since for us there is only Heaven or Hell). The parable tells us that the rich man was not faithful to the Lord in life, and hence not faithful to the Lord in death.

As for the reference to Paradise, Paradise was never meant by Jesus to be Heaven (for clearly, he had not yet entered Heaven). Rather, Paradise is being in the presence of Jesus after one's death.

Strictly my opinion, though. I'm sure others' will differ.

 

(Rev 2:7 KJV)
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

So you are saying in effect that the "tree of life" is in Hades?

 

Abraham's Bosom
(Luk_16:22, Luk_16:23) refers to the custom of reclining on couches at table, which was prevalent among the Jews, an arrangement which brought the head of one person almost into the bosom of the one who sat or reclined above him. To “be in Abraham's bosom” thus meant to enjoy happiness and rest (Mat_8:11; Luk_16:23) at the banquet in Paradise.

How one can think that Hell can be a place of "happiness and rest" is beyond me.

 

Yes. Paradise is in hades (hell).

Eze 31:16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. </font>[/QUOTE]So if I tell you to "go to Hell", you should take it as a compliment.

 

The dead are spoken of as sleeping, in both the old, and new testaments. Why would anyone burning in hell, or suffering in torments, or in heaven in the presence of God, be referred to as asleep?

Deut 31:16
16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Speaking to David, the Lord said-
2 Sam 7:12
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

IKing 1:21
21 Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, that I and my son Solomon shall be counted offenders.


Job 7:21
21 And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.

Job 14:10-12
10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.


Ps 13:3
3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;


Jer 51:39
39 In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.


Jer 51:57
57 And I will make drunk her princes, and her wise men, her captains, and her rulers, and her mighty men: and they shall sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the King, whose name is the LORD of hosts.


IKing 2:10
10 So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.


IKing 11:43
43 And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father: and Rehoboam his son reigned in his stead.


IKing 14:20
20 And the days which Jeroboam reigned were two and twenty years: and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his stead.


IKing 14:31
31 And Rehoboam slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David. And his mother's name was Naamah an Ammonitess. And Abijam his son reigned in his stead.


IKing 15:8
8 And Abijam slept with his fathers; and they buried him in the city of David: and Asa his son reigned in his stead.


Dan 12:2
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.


Matt 9:24
24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.


Mark 5:39
39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.


John 11:11-14
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


Acts 7:60
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.


1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


1Thes 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


2 Pet 3:4
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


Matt 27:52-53
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The dead before and after Christ, are referred to as sleeping. What good would it do to go and preach to a bunch of sleeping people? When one preaches to people that are sleeping in their congregation, they know that they did not get their message across.

Speaking of which, I think I'll go to bed.

Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith

 

Abraham's Bosom
(Luk_16:22, Luk_16:23) refers to the custom of reclining on couches at table, which was prevalent among the Jews, an arrangement which brought the head of one person almost into the bosom of the one who sat or reclined above him. To “be in Abraham's bosom” thus meant to enjoy happiness and rest (Mat_8:11; Luk_16:23) at the banquet in Paradise.

How one can think that Hell can be a place of "happiness and rest" is beyond me. </font>[/QUOTE]Indeed. But remember all this "scooting of Paradise around the Cosmos" and "assigning paradise to hell" and "equating Abraham's Bosom with Paradise" is -- pure guesswork. Not one text in all of scripture claims ANY of those things I just listed!

How many Christians actually understand that? How many "ask for the text" that SHOWS those things that tradition has taught?

IN Christ,

Bob

 

quote:
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How one can think that Hell can be a place of "happiness and rest" is beyond me.
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Gup20 said --

How can one think that New Jersey is a place of happiness or rest?

Hell is a place. It is the place we all were bound over to going when we died - as we were separated from God by our sin. Jesus made a way for us to leave that place. Abraham was the first to experience rest there... his belief was counted to him as righteousness. He believed in Jesus before he knew who Jesus was - he believed in the PROMISE (or covenant) God made with him.

However, Jesus was the first to be able to leave Hell. He took the keys to the gates of hell away from Satan.
[/quote]

No text says "Abraham rested in hell".

No text says "Abraham's bosom was hell"

No text says "people that go to hell eventually go to heaven".

No text says "Jesus went to hell".

No text says the saints of Heb 11 "went to hell".

But in Heb 11 we have OT saints going DIRECTLY to heaven WITHOUT even dying as also we see IN The OT text with "Elijah and Enoch")

Yes! They DID go to heaven "God took them" and in fact "took them up to heaven" and took them such that they did NOT see death!

They actually did go there and are there still to this day.

Heaven was REAL for OT saints!.

Not a single saint listed in Heb 11 is sais to "have gone to hell".

In Christ,

Bob

 

Correct. He would have entered Sheol (in Greek, Hades). Many NT translations translate the word Hades as hell, but Hell as we know it is Gehenna, not Hades. This is more a matter of the translational limitations of going from Greek to English.

I dunno 'bout that. This is far from a WoF issue. Many Christians incorrectly presume that Jesus went to Gehenna, based simply out of honest ignorance of the Greek-English translational issue. It's a matter easily rectified by understanding the Greek, but since it is of such brief mention in the NT, it's not touched upon much in depth in churches. </font>[/QUOTE]Agreed.

I can't believe it! I am agreeing with JohnV.

(Is this the first time - or did I do it once before?)

In Christ,

Bob