Did Jesus have Divine or Human Blood?

[Me2]

Im Back...

Adam Was Created From The Molecules of The Earth..They Were Atoms of Molecules That Existed under The Properties Not Containing Entropy..Pre-Fall...We Can Say That Entropy is The Decay or Breakdown. The release of Energy..A Form Of Death.

For An Easy Way Of Describing This..Adam "Sinned" and God Introduced Entropy into This Universe. Also An imputed curse on Adams Spirit and to His Seed.

Before Adam "Sinned". Adam was A Perfect Human...Physically although spiritually innocent.. Adam Could Have Physically Lived Forever. Even The Universe Could Have Existed Forever..Perfect
Gods Spirit Could have Entered and Existed Within Adam. He Was Created By God Perfectly.

After Adam "Sinned", God Could Not Enter in Adams Body Because Of The Entropy..The Curse of Death...The Imperfection. The Boundry That God Places On His Nature and his Creation.
God Is Holy And Pure and His Creation is In A Seperated State of Death. Unholy.....

Do We Call A Perfect Creation Of God...Divine ?...Afterall Creation is An Attribute of Gods Expression of Himself to himself.....Mankind is Spectators Of Gods Expression of Himself to Himself. We Can Even Say..We Are Inside God. Watching and Being Participants of Gods Holy activities......

So Now We Introduce God Becoming Man.....Having to Bring His Own Holy Genetic Material To Be The Only Human Being Without Entropy In His Human Body. In Our Universe That Is Based On Death..He Was Physically Perfect As Man Was On The First Day Of Creation..Capable of Existing Forever..Capable of God Entering within and Existing in. Jesus Human Body walking in a world of Death for 33+ years...100% Fully Human...100% Human Blood..as God First Intended Blood To Be. Even The Atoms of Jesus Body Depending on The Power Of God The Father for Sustinance...Energy...Divine Energy.

At Jesus Death...His Pure Sinless Eternal Blood Represented All Of The Atom Of Gods Creation.
His Life..His Spirit Represented Every Human That Existed. The Shedding Of His Blood Covered All Of Gods Creation...Every Atom Of Every Star In Every Galaxy In Gods UNIVERSE.
God Is Not Going To Create Something Perfect..Representing His Very Attributes and allow to be destroyed through neglect or misrepresentation via mankind. "The Lamb Slain Before The Foundation Of The World", Clearly Tells Mankind, Theres A Much Larger Plan In Store For Mankind and Gods Creation...something that was ,is, and always will be considered... Divine.

I Try To Make The Distinction But The Lines Become Blurred...God Was Within The Body Of Jesus. and Jesus Human Body was Perfect ...As Was His Blood.

Jesus (being God) Was Divine..But His (Perfect) Body Wasnt...I Say No..That Sounds confusing.

or Jesus (being God) was Divine as well As Jesus (Perfect) Body was also Divine..

and His Blood Inside That Body Represents every Atom Of Every Molecule in Our Universe.

......Infinitely Divine.......


Me2

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by Latreia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SheEagle911:
But some of us aren't impressed by historical positions. Historical positions have often been proved wrong, historically! (topic for another thread) LOL!

What some of us are interested in is what the Bible says.

No one here has proven from Scripture that Jesus Christ had human blood and not divine
blood.

Three things:

1) Chalcedon has been historically affirmed BECAUSE it coheres with what the bible says.

2) You have the burden of proof reversed. Since human blood is the historic position it is incumbent on those who would disagree to provide the proof. What makes you think that Chalcedon does not represent what Scripture says?

3) You place yourself on the side of heresy by affirming something that was denied by Chalcedon.</font>[/QUOTE]First of all, what part of "not impressed by historical positions" and "interested in what the Bible says" do you not understand?

I did a google on Chalcedon. Why have I never heard of it before? Because it originates from Catholicism, that's why. Strange to me why a Baptist would rely on Catholic dogma for their beliefs and not on Scripture. Here's what google brought up about Chalcedon:

Council of Chalcedon
The Fourth Ecumenical Council, held in 451, from 8 October until 1 November inclusive, at Chalcedon, a city of Bithynia in Asia Minor. Its principal purpose was to assert the orthodox Catholic doctrine against the heresy of Eutyches and the Monophysites, although ecclesiastical discipline and jurisdiction also occupied the council's attention.

You stated: You place yourself on the side of heresy by affirming something that was denied by Chalcedon."

SheEagle911: Well, maybe heresy according to the Catholic church which also believes in purgatory and saying Hail Marys.

I would be careful of coming on a Baptist Board, claiming to be a Baptist, and then using Catholic dogma (not Scripture) to support my views and accusing others of being heretics!

I think our discussion has ended. You have yet to prove anything based upon Chapters & Verses from Scripture. I consider your post a flame.

[ September 02, 2002, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: SheEagle911 ]

 

[Justified]

I have not really studied this aspect of Jesus.

But, after reading these posts here and knowing what I do about mine and your Saviour, He definitely had "Divine Blood".

Unless of coarse He is not God!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Sularis:
However, we have to deal with issue of temptation - in order to properly resolve the issue - God cannot be tempted - man can be - Christ suffered Himself to be.

I don't think this has any relevance. Blood simply makes one alive. It does not make them righteous or sinful. That is a spiritual issue, not a physical one. Sin is not an inherent part of humanity. Christ couldb e fully human, have temptation from without, but not temptation from within.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by SheEagle911:
No one here has proven from Scripture that Jesus Christ had human blood and not divine blood.

Hello .... Already cited several times ... Heb 2:14: Since the children partook of flesh and blood, he likewise partook of the same (flesh and blood).

No one has yet proved that divine blood even exists, what properties is has, and what it is made up of ... much less that Christ had it. I affirm that to deny that Christ had human blood is to deny his full humanity. Blood from animals does not work in the human body because human blood is unique. Blood from God (whatever that is) does not work in the human body.

 

[LadyEagle]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SheEagle911:
No one here has proven from Scripture that Jesus Christ had human blood and not divine blood.

Hello .... Already cited several times ... Heb 2:14: Since the children partook of flesh and blood, he likewise partook of the same (flesh and blood).

No one has yet proved that divine blood even exists, what properties is has, and what it is made up of ... much less that Christ had it. I affirm that to deny that Christ had human blood is to deny his full humanity. Blood from animals does not work in the human body because human blood is unique. Blood from God (whatever that is) does not work in the human body.</font>[/QUOTE]So are you saying Christ was not the Passover Lamb?

 

[Me2]

If Sin Is Imputed Because of Disobedience towards God (or Gods Will..) That Choice In That Persons Life Would Be Represented By The Blood. Adam Disobeyed. Introducing Sin, A Sin Nature and Death Towards our Physical World. It Allowed Satan To Reign with The Influence of Evil, and the Power Of Death.

If Jesus Would Have Chosen To Sin In Disobedience Towards God (or Gods will) His Life's Choices Would Have Been Represented By His Blood. and Also In Like Course..Entropy would have been introduced into his body. Making His Blood No Longer Sinless...

Perfect Human Blood..without entropy within its make-up allows God To Enter Into His Body.

Unlike our Blood..Jesus Very Molecular Structure was "Under" Gods Control...Sort of Dying To Self or Bringing Self under Full 100% Submission to The Will Of God..Down To The Subatomic level.....God Even Controls or Has Sovereignty over The Energy Supplied To Our Very Atoms Within our Blood and Bodies....

Like Jesus Healing others by touching or spitting or even people touching his clothing. God the Fathers Energy Flowing Through that Body which was under Submission. via The Fathers Will.
Even More Power Than Jesus Cells Needed... Enough for People Around Him.
Jesus Didnt Perform The Miracles.(per say) .It Was The Fathers Energy Flowing Through Jesus.
The Father Sustaining Jesus Human Body....Thats Why It Could Live Forever...The Fathers Power.

His Blood..Infinitely Valuable....Our Blood...only worth to the sustaining of our life until our physical Death. ...Dont We Concider Ourselves Dead...by Faith.

[ September 02, 2002, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]

 

[russell55]

So are you saying Christ was not the Passover Lamb?

Huh??? How did you get from what Pastor Larry posted to this question?

And why don't you think that the scripture PL posted tells us that Jesus had human blood just like we do?

 

[Bible-belted]

SheEagle:

I understand very well what you mean. But you fail to understand that I am not asking you to acceot Chalcedon because it is the historicla position but because it IS the historical position FOR A REASON. Namely that it coheres with Scripture. So if you want Scriptural reasons, go read up on Chalcedon.

As for Chalcedon itself, you never heard of it because you never botherd to study on it. You seem to think that ther is a problem with it becuase of the word catholic being associated with it. you take that as an excuse to ignore it.

I have news for you. There is not a single orhtodox denomnination that I know of that does not accept the findigns of Chlacedon as accurate. Ask around. People like James White, who is anything but a Roman Catholic supporter affirm Chalcedon. Check Walter martin or Hank Hannegraf for that matter, even Dave Hunt! I am sure that all of these would say that Chalcedon is accurate in its representation of scriptural truth.

So it isn't heresy according to the Catholic church. It is heresy as defined by the totality of Christendom.

Have fun with that.

BTW, pastor Larry is quite correct in his citing Hebrews.

Some poeple will take any old excuse to avoid truth...

(My post a flame?)

 

[Norm]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
Blood from God (whatever that is) ...

I agree with you Pastor Larry; I don't think I recall anyone asking such a question, however my experience is an n of 1, thus it is limited. It is "sorta" like this: sometimes a student really stumps a teacher with a question, not that the teacher could answer such a question; that is, some questions make no sense in asking. And, it could be that if the teacher doesn't answer to the questioner's liking, the questioner then assumes the teacher knows little, but in actuality the question itself brings to the fore the lack of awareness of the questioner (but the questioner can be excused for such, and I would surmise all of us at times ask what we know not what we ask!). God is not an entity. Entities take form. God does not take form, even as God is "foundation," for existence, that is, Being which lets be for being (which does take form). Put me down for blood that would resemble our own.

 

[Hal Parker]

Me2 wrote:
"Unlike our Blood..Jesus Very Molecular Structure was "Under" Gods Control...Sort of Dying To Self or Bringing Self under Full 100% Submission to The Will Of God..Down To The Subatomic level.....God Even Controls or Has Sovereignty over The Energy Supplied To Our Very Atoms Within our Blood and Bodies.... "

Everything in the universe is under God's control already.

Col. 1:17 "And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

Jesus actively sustains all of the Creation including the blood in my body.

 

[LadyEagle]

I have news for you. There is not a single orhtodox denomnination that I know of that does not accept the findigns of Chlacedon as accurate. Ask around. People like James White, who is anything but a Roman Catholic supporter affirm Chalcedon. Check Walter martin or Hank Hannegraf for that matter, even Dave Hunt! I am sure that all of these would say that Chalcedon is accurate in its representation of scriptural truth.

So it isn't heresy according to the Catholic church. It is heresy as defined by the totality of Christendom.

Well, I'm a Baptist & never heard of it. And I don't know any Baptists who give a piece of baloney about anything anybody decides or has decided other than the Bible, God's Holy Word.

So, "Baptist," go ahead keep posting your support of Catholicism on this Baptist Board. You've just run off this Baptist so I hope you're happy. I've had enough. I will not be a party to ecuminenicalism.

I must say, you and your cronies have succeeded where the atheists & agnostics didn't succeed. Thank you for further advancing Salvation and the Kingdom of God. I hope you're prepared to defend what you're doing at the judgment.

 

[Bible-belted]

"Well, I'm a Baptist & never heard of it."

And that proves what exactly?

"And I don't know any Baptists who give a piece of baloney about anything anybody decides or has decided other than the Bible, God's Holy Word."

No one is saying you have to let history superceded Scripture. But we do have to reckon with history. Each new generation does not start off with a clean slate, building theology rom the raw material of Scripture alone. They have a history of interpretation that they are brought into and taught. Even you. You just seem to be unaware of some of that history.
"So, "Baptist," go ahead keep posting your support of Catholicism on this Baptist Board. You've just run off this Baptist so I hope you're happy. I've had enough. I will not be a party to ecuminenicalism. [[Mad]]"

This is just you being knee-jerk irrational. I am not supportive of Catholicism. I am suppotive of Orthodox Christianity, biblcial christianity. And the Chalcedonian Definition is accepted by all Christian denominations as an accurate summary of Christian teaching on Christ.

Besides, at the time of Chalcedon there were no baptists, or Lutherans or anything like that. What else is Chalcedon going to be but Catholic? But it is not the rruth that we reject all things that come from that time becuase they are Catholic. You accept the Trinity no? Council of Nicea. Catholic. You accpet the New Testamrnt, no? Compiled by Catholics. For the longest time copied and preserved by Catholics. The NT was first recognised in its modern form by Athanasius, a Catholic. There are even a bunch of epistles called the Catholic (or General) Epistles. Do you reject those?

Like it or not I am every bit as much a Baptist as you. And this is NOT about ecumenism.

I'm sorry you feel you have to go. No one is saying you have to. Indeed, I believe you will be missed.

Blessings to you in Christ.

 

[russell55]

SheEagle,

Why didn't you interact with the text Pastor Larry quoted?

 

[Sularis]

Adam could not have lived forever -

Gen 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Incorrect assumption

Temptation is not from without -

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Temptation is not sin - Succumbing to temptation is!

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

The concept of divine blood has yet to be shown to me with verses - just verses

Im making the argument of human blood - divine spirit to properly seperate and assign equality between the two aspects - Jesus was fully Human and Jesus was fully God

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

2 Corinthians 1:12 ¶ For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

I could post many more flesh bad - spirit good verses - but I would hope you are starting to get the point.

In order for God to be tempted in human form - He has to be FULLY human - and thus with blood - now we're hearing the argument that His blood wasnt human it was some special divine blood.

Christ atoned for the curse of mankind -

Romans 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

 

[Me2]

Hi Sularis,
Could You Agree That Jesus HUMAN BLOOD Was Pre-Fall..Without Sin or Any Physical Properties Associated With Entropy?

Me2

 

[Bible-belted]

Originally posted by Me2:
Hi Sularis,
Could You Agree That Jesus HUMAN BLOOD Was Pre-Fall..Without Sin or Any Physical Properties Associated With Entropy?

Me2

You have to prove that sin and entropy are related in a necessary way.

You also have to deal with Scripture and history.

Have fun.

 

[Me2]

OK...

Adam Was Physically Perfect...Biologically.
Spiritually innocent..No Knowledge..No Understanding of Good or Evil

Gen 2:17 But Of The Tree Of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest therof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eatened of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In The Sweat of thy Face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Death Was Interjected into Creation Via The Curse Of Adams Transgression.

1 Cor 15:21 For Since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the Dead.
Jam 1:15 Then When Lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth Sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth Death.

Websters defines Entropy...The Degredation of the matter and energy in the universe to an ultimate state of inert uniformity....

Jesus Body Was Different. It Was A Conduit of Energy To Others...Life Giving

Not A Body such as ours where we only can sustain our own lives for a finite period until entropy eventually destroys our bodies. Scientists have stated that each molecule in our bodies are replaced approximately 10 times in ones lifetime...
ie 70 years.

The Statement made was...Did Jesus Have A Pre-fall Biological Body w/human blood
without The Physical Calamity That Causes Eventual Death...Entropy?

 

[Hal Parker]

Your post shows that you don't really understand entropy. If your reasoning is correct, then entropy could not change before the Fall. That is incorrect. Starting from the original definition of entropy, it can be shown that entropy changed before the Fall.

Read:
"Did Entropy Change before the Curse?"
by Robert Hill in Creation Matters (September/October 2001), Volume 6, Number 5
http://www.creationresearch.org/creation_matters/pdf/2001/cm0605.pdf

Creation Matters is published by the Creation Research Society.

Now, death is somehow related to entropy. But we don't exactly know how.

You are grasping at straws trying to back up your belief that Jesus had blood that was different from anyone else's. Jesus had ordinary blood. Otherwise, he couldn't be the second Adam.

 

[Me2]

Hello Hal,
Ive Read Your Article and I Find It Has No Relevance To The Discussion of whether The Properties of Adams Human Body Was Effected Before Or after The Fall.
(It speaks of The Thermodynamic law as a Temperature loss being a vital part of energy regression.)

How About ....Electrical ,Magnetic, Chemical,.even gravitational energy loss...

God Designed The human Body To Live In and Through. To Interract with.
It Was Pure..Perfect at creation...God Couldn't Interract within with less than perfect.
The Curse..Caused God not to be able to dwell within Adams Human Body. Adam was cutoff of God's Eternal Life Giving Resourses. Try and Detect Gods Energy By Using A Thermodynamic Law......My God Is Perfect and Designs Perfect Creations...
ie the human body...

Adam is Cutoff of Gods Flowing Energy Through adams Body....immediatly causing a regression. Adam is seperated from God....Eventually Death.

Everything is Based in this universe with a retarding counter effect of entropy..

This is Not How God Originally Created The Universe.
Read In The Bible All Of THe Events in Jesus Life of Him Healing..By Touching.

This would have been Adam and His Capabilities.

Jesus Physical Body Was No Different From Adams..Perfect before Adams Fall (and The Introduction of Entropy within Adams Body.)

Entropy is the seperating Factor God Has Introduced Into This Universe. Creation Now would Flee If A Holy God Approached It.
Jesus Body Had To Be Pure Down To The Most Infinite Level So That God Could Dwell Within Mankind. Say it how you like..It Just Is.

A Holy God Would Choose No Less Than A Holy Human Body...Completely Other Than OUR Bodies which contain impurities. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...Yea... Our Bodies That Contain Entropy.

Divine Human Blood...........

Me2