Did Jesus 'rest' in the tomb?

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

“In Joseph’s Tomb”


The Grave the Sabbath Rest of Jesus

“At last Jesus was at rest. The long day of shame and torture was ended. As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay in quietude in Joseph’s tomb. His work completed, His hands were folded in peace, He rested through the sacred hours of the Sabbath day.”


“At last Jesus was at rest”

‘Rest’ for God, is not lying still, dead still, doing nothing. His ‘rest’ for God and for his Christ, is Work, the Act – the Divine Work and the Divine Act –, of
(1) “the Exceeding greatness of his Power which He Worked”; which He worked, in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all the works of God”, Hb4:5;
(2) in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all the works (of God) which He had made / availed” – i.e., the Feat or Glory of His “accomplishment” which He had ‘worked’, Gn2:2;
(3) also in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all His works which God created, and made” – i.e., the created universe, Gn2:3,

“Finished”, is how God in Christ, ‘rested’. ‘Work’ and ‘Rest’ for God, are not synonymous; for God, His ‘Rest’, is the superlative of His ‘Work’. The ‘rest’ of God of and on the Seventh Day was The Finishing of His Finishing of the Works of God— to lie “in quietude in Joseph’s tomb” could not be it. Therefore the grave was Jesus’ ‘rest’, not yet! His ‘Rest’, would be Jesus’ Resurrection from the dead!

The grave, and especially the tomb of Jesus, is the symbol of ‘finished’ in the sense of kaput, nihil, the point of no return; it is the token of the dead and of death— “corruption”; death, which is “the wages of sin” – especially in the case of Jesus, who “bare our sins”. One’s tomb is the token of and seal upon his failure. It is a place of no quietude, but a place haunted by feasting devils. In graves the hyacinth does not grow; it hosts no goddess be she Serenity (‘Peace’); the fear of the grave drives out ‘rest’. The grave holds victory! Worshippers of satan frequent graves for worship, because the grave has swallowed up life. For sooth, were it not for our Lord Jesus Christ and for his Triumph! He is the Risen; He has conquered: not in, the grave, but from, the grave, Glory Alleluiah!

Therefore Christ ‘rested’ “when God” rested “when He raised Christ from the dead”. God rested, and, Christ the Saviour, then, rested. “For He that is entered into His Rest, as God He indeed from His Own works ceased.” Hb4:10. The Son as the Father rested when “Suddenly there was a great earthquake, and the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came, and rolled away the stone from the door.” Now, “sing the song of Moses and of the Lamb!” For “Then shall be brought to pass that is written: Death is swallowed up in Victory.” “And I saw a Lamb stood on mount Zion, and with Him, hundred and forty four thousand!” “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where, thy, victory”, now? “Thanks to God who gave us Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” His “labour (was) not in vain!”

At last Jesus was at rest; Jesus Christ rested in resurrection from the dead.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

“The setting sun ushered in the Sabbath”

“As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay ... in Joseph’s tomb.”

There is nothing wrong with this (without “in quietude”). But there is something strikingly obvious before this, missing! Few (if any) Seventh Day Adventists have noticed; but there are no modern translators or reviewers of the old translations of the Bible who did not see it. So they changed it in the new translations so that everybody for ever after should gloss over what is here missing. I shall now bring forward that other deception of satan, that the death of Christ abrogated the Father’s law of creation, that the sun should rule days. (Cf. p 77 §6.)

Even if it take you hours, or days, or weeks or months or years, dear reader, understand what I have here said, or you won’t be able to understand the devil’s deception and the passion of his deception, which was so strong that he not only deceived the Seventh Day Adventists, but all Christianity.

Now what is missing in Mrs Whites’ statement, “At last Jesus was at rest. The long day of shame and torture was ended. As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay in quietude in Joseph’s tomb. His work completed, His hands were folded in peace, He rested through the sacred hours of the Sabbath day”?

We have seen her say, “Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, and with His parting breath He exclaimed, “It is finished.” John 19:30”, p 73 §1. From here on Mrs White wrote seven pages of inspiringly sound doctrine – that now is, between John 19:30 and Luke 23:53-56 that is inferred in her here quoted statement from page 80, §1. In between Mrs White has quoted from the Gospels, “Matt. 26:39”, p 74 §5, and “Luke 23:34”, p 75 §2. Every of her quotes from the Bible (these two included), in these seven pages was chosen for its ‘theological’ content. She makes no direct or indirect reference to or from any Scripture that might have bearing on or that might have implications for, chronology. It is only John 19:30 and Luke 23:53-56 that in these pages have implications of time that help tell us when the events recorded in these pages occurred.

Reading these seven pages with only these two texts for information on the time and day and date of Jesus’ crucifixion and interment, unequivocally creates the impression all said therein, happened on the same day! Reading, “At last Jesus was at rest. The long day of shame and torture was ended. As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay in quietude in Joseph’s tomb. His work completed, His hands were folded in peace, He rested through the sacred hours of the Sabbath day”, leaves no doubt Jesus suffered and died the very day He was laid to rest, Friday. Reading “The long day of shame and torture was ended”, can mean but one thing, Jesus was crucified and died earlier on Friday, the last rays of the setting sun of which, “ushered in the Sabbath”.

Well, what is wrong with that? probably everyone will reply, Seventh Day Adventist and non-Seventh Day Adventist. What is ‘missing’; what is awry?

What is missing are several – in fact, many – Scriptural references and inferences to time, date and day, not mentioned, not looked at, and consequently not taken into consideration in the context of the chronology of the events. Only thus could it be possible to uphold, yea, vindicate, the impression left, that Jesus was both crucified and buried the same day, Friday, before the weekly Sabbath.

This is what I call hermeneutics by methodology – in which methodology creates its own meaning, and meaning of the text is retracted into and covered within method. Or call it tactics, for sinister motive.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The most important Scriptural reference to time, date and day, not mentioned, not looked at, and consequently not taken into consideration of in the context of the chronology of the events, is Mark 15:42 / Matthew 27:57 – texts like Luke 23:48 and John 19:14 and 31, confirming.

What does it mean? It means, the left-out texts incorporated into reckoning and evaluating chronology of events, Jesus was crucified and died – as recorded – 3 o’clock in the afternoon, and that thereafter, everybody – “all the people that came together to that sight” – “deserted Him” and the scene of the crucifixion, and “returned” – each to his own place of abode during that Passover Season. It means, that the long day of shame and torture was ended as the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the day upon which Jesus’ body was to be laid in the tomb – in fact, ushered in the day before, His body was “granted Joseph”, before, Joseph “took it down” from the cross, and “away”, before, Joseph “prepared” it for burial “according to custom of the Jews”. It means, after the Son of God had been crucified and died, He – his work that long day of shame and torture completed – the following day before the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the sacred hours of the Sabbath Day, had been laid in Joseph’s tomb.

It means, “the third day according to the Scriptures”, the Son of Man would again be raised up, “First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the LORD”, “the third day”, “In Sabbath’s time fully, after noon, before the First Day of the week”!

 

[TCGreek]

Are you SDA?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Are you SDA?

GE
What does it look like to you?

 

[EdSutton]

This is what I call hermeneutics by methodology – in which methodology creates its own meaning, and meaning of the text is retracted into and covered within method.

Speakin' of hermeneutics by methodol... -

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

“In Joseph’s Tomb”


The Grave the Sabbath Rest of Jesus

“At last Jesus was at rest. The long day of shame and torture was ended. As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay in quietude in Joseph’s tomb. His work completed, His hands were folded in peace, He rested through the sacred hours of the Sabbath day.”


“At last Jesus was at rest”

‘Rest’ for God, is not lying still, dead still, doing nothing. His ‘rest’ for God and for his Christ, is Work, the Act – the Divine Work and the Divine Act –, of
(1) “the Exceeding greatness of his Power which He Worked”; which He worked, in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all the works of God”, Hb4:5;
(2) in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all the works (of God) which He had made / availed” – i.e., the Feat or Glory of His “accomplishment” which He had ‘worked’, Gn2:2;
(3) also in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all His works which God created, and made” – i.e., the created universe, Gn2:3,

“Finished”, is how God in Christ, ‘rested’. ‘Work’ and ‘Rest’ for God, are not synonymous; for God, His ‘Rest’, is the superlative of His ‘Work’. The ‘rest’ of God of and on the Seventh Day was The Finishing of His Finishing of the Works of God— to lie “in quietude in Joseph’s tomb” could not be it. Therefore the grave was Jesus’ ‘rest’, not yet! His ‘Rest’, would be Jesus’ Resurrection from the dead!

The grave, and especially the tomb of Jesus, is the symbol of ‘finished’ in the sense of kaput, nihil, the point of no return; it is the token of the dead and of death— “corruption”; death, which is “the wages of sin” – especially in the case of Jesus, who “bare our sins”. One’s tomb is the token of and seal upon his failure. It is a place of no quietude, but a place haunted by feasting devils. In graves the hyacinth does not grow; it hosts no goddess be she Serenity (‘Peace’); the fear of the grave drives out ‘rest’. The grave holds victory! Worshippers of satan frequent graves for worship, because the grave has swallowed up life. For sooth, were it not for our Lord Jesus Christ and for his Triumph! He is the Risen; He has conquered: not in, the grave, but from, the grave, Glory Alleluiah!

Therefore Christ ‘rested’ “when God” rested “when He raised Christ from the dead”. God rested, and, Christ the Saviour, then, rested. “For He that is entered into His Rest, as God He indeed from His Own works ceased.” Hb4:10. The Son as the Father rested when “Suddenly there was a great earthquake, and the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came, and rolled away the stone from the door.” Now, “sing the song of Moses and of the Lamb!” For “Then shall be brought to pass that is written: Death is swallowed up in Victory.” “And I saw a Lamb stood on mount Zion, and with Him, hundred and forty four thousand!” “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where, thy, victory”, now? “Thanks to God who gave us Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” His “labour (was) not in vain!”

At last Jesus was at rest; Jesus Christ rested in resurrection from the dead.

FTR, "the Son of God" never "lay in" the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, at all; His body, which Joseph had asked for, (Mk. 15:43-45) was laid in the tomb by Joseph (Mt. 27:60), aided by Nicodemus. (Jn. 19:39-40)

The Son of God (Mt. 27:54) had dismissed His Spirit into the Father's hand (Lk. 23:46) and He was not hanging around any grave for any 'funeral service', for He had some place to be - namely Paradise, where He had someone He was going to be there to greet. (Lk. 23:43) In fact, the only time the Son of God ever 'spent' in the tomb (for any reason), was merely 'stopping' long enough to 'pick up' His resurrected body! (Jn. 2:19-22) And even then, after that, He had some place else to go, namely to present Himself before the Father. (Jn. 20:17)

Ed

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Because my initial posts caused confusion, I want to first repost them, as reviewed and corrected.

“The setting sun ushered in the Sabbath”

“At last Jesus was at rest. The long day of shame and torture was ended. As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay in quietude in Joseph’s tomb. His work completed, His hands were folded in peace, He rested through the sacred hours of the Sabbath day.”

“At last Jesus was at rest”

‘Rest’ for God, is not lying still, dead still, doing nothing. His ‘rest’ for God and for his Christ, is Work, the Act – the Divine Work and the Divine Act –, of
(1) “the Exceeding greatness of his Power which He Worked”; which He worked, in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all the works of God”, Hb4:5;
(2) in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all the works (of God) which He had made / availed” – i.e., the Feat or Glory of His “accomplishment” which He had ‘worked’, Gn2:2;
(3) also in “Finishing / Completing” – in “Perfecting” – “all His works which God created, and made” – i.e., the created universe, Gn2:3,

“Finished”, is how God in Christ, ‘rested’. ‘Work’ and ‘Rest’ for God, are not synonyms; for God, His ‘Rest’, is the Superlative of His ‘Works’. The ‘rest’ of God of and on the Seventh Day for God was The Finishing of His Finishing of “all the Works of God”— not to lie “in quietude in Joseph’s tomb” all the works of God undone! Therefore the grave was Jesus’ ‘rest’, not yet! His ‘Rest’, would be Jesus’ Resurrection from the dead!

The grave, and especially the tomb of Jesus, is the symbol of ‘finished’ in the sense of kaput, nihil, the point of no return; it is the token of the dead and of death— “corruption”, death which especially in the case of Jesus who “bare our sins”, was “the wages of sin”. One’s tomb is the token of and seal upon his failure. It is a place of no quietude, but a place haunted by feasting devils. In graves the hyacinth does not grow; it hosts no gods be she Serenity (goddess of Peace); the fear of the grave drives out ‘rest’. The grave holds victory! Worshippers of satan frequent graves for worship, because the grave has swallowed up life. For sooth, were it not our Lord Jesus Christ Triumphed, - triumphed over death and grave! He is the Risen; He has conquered: not in, the grave, but from, the grave, Glory Alleluia!

Therefore Christ ‘rested’ “when God” rested “when He raised Christ from the dead”. God rested, and, Christ the Saviour, then, rested. “For He that is entered into His Rest, as God He indeed from His Own works ceased.” Hb4:10. The Son as the Father rested when “Suddenly there was a great earthquake, and the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came, and rolled away the stone from the door.” Now, “sing the song of Moses and of the Lamb!” For “Then shall be brought to pass that is written: Death is swallowed up in Victory.” “And I saw a Lamb stood on mount Zion, and with Him, hundred and forty four thousand!” “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where, thy, victory”, now? “Thanks to God who gave us Victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” His “labour (was) not in vain!”

At last, Jesus was at rest; Jesus Christ in resurrection “from the dead” and from the grave, rested. “The last enemy is death … destroyed!” Death’s destruction was God’s rest through Jesus Christ.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

“The last rays of the setting sun”

There is nothing wrong with this, “As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay ... in Joseph’s tomb.”
(“in quietude” omitted). But there is something strikingly obvious before this, missing! Few (if any) Seventh Day Adventists have noticed; but there are no modern translators or reviewers of the old translations of the Bible who did not see it. So they changed it in the new translations so that everybody for ever after should gloss over what is here missing. I shall now bring forward that other deception of satan, that the death of Christ abrogated the Father’s law of creation, that the sun should rule days. (Cf. p 77 §6.)

Even if it take you hours, or days, or weeks or months or years, dear reader, understand what I have here said, or you won’t be able to understand the devil’s deception and the passion of his deception, which was so strong that he not only deceived the Seventh Day Adventists, but all Christianity.
Now what is missing in Mrs Whites’ statement, “At last Jesus was at rest. The long day of shame and torture was ended. As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay in quietude in Joseph’s tomb. His work completed, His hands were folded in peace, He rested through the sacred hours of the Sabbath day”?

We have seen her say, “Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, and with His parting breath He exclaimed, “It is finished.” John 19:30”, p 73 §1. From here on Mrs White wrote seven pages of inspiringly sound doctrine – that now is, between John 19:30 and Luke 23:53-56 that is inferred in her here quoted statement from page 80, §1. In between Mrs White has quoted from the Gospels, “Matt. 26:39”, p 74 §5, and “Luke 23:34”, p 75 §2. Every of her quotes from the Bible (these two included), in these seven pages was chosen for its ‘theological’ content. She makes no direct or indirect reference to or from any Scripture that might have bearing on or that might have implications for, chronology. It is only John 19:30 and Luke 23:53-56 that in these pages have implications of time that help tell us when the events recorded in these pages occurred.

Reading these seven pages with only these two texts for information on the time and day and date of Jesus’ crucifixion and interment, unequivocally creates the impression all said therein, happened on the same day! Reading, “At last Jesus was at rest. The long day of shame and torture was ended. As the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath, the Son of God lay in quietude in Joseph’s tomb. His work completed, His hands were folded in peace, He rested through the sacred hours of the Sabbath day”, leaves no doubt Jesus suffered and died the very day He was laid to rest, Friday. Reading “The long day of shame and torture was ended”, can mean but one thing, Jesus was crucified and died earlier on Friday, “in the end of” which, “the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the Sabbath”.

Well, what is wrong with that? probably everyone will reply, Seventh Day Adventist and non-Seventh Day Adventist alike. What is ‘missing’; what is awry? What is missing are several – in fact, many – Scriptural references and inferences to time, date and day, not mentioned, not looked at, and consequently not taken into consideration in the context of the chronology of the events according to the Gospels. Only thus could it with these seven pages of Mrs White’s, be possible to uphold, yea, vindicate, the impression left, that Jesus was both crucified and buried the same day, Friday, before the weekly Sabbath. This is what I call hermeneutics by methodology – in which methodology creates its own meaning, and
meaning of the text is retracted into and covered within method. Or call it tactics, for sinister motive.

The most important Scriptural reference to time, date and day of such tactics not mentioned, not looked at, and consequently not considered in the context of the chronology of the events, is Mark 15:42 / Matthew 27:57 – texts like Luke 23:48 and John 19:14 and 31, confirming. What does the omission of the ‘time-texts’, mean?

(1) It means, the left-out texts incorporated into reckoning and evaluating chronology of events, Jesus was crucified and died – as recorded – 3 o’clock in the afternoon, and that thereafter the same day, everybody – “all the people that came together to that sight” – “deserted Him” and the scene of the crucifixion, and “returned”, each to his own place of abode during that Passover Season.
(2) It means, the long day of shame and torture was ended,and the next day upon which Jesus’ body was to be laid in the tomb had begun – in fact, it means the long day of shame and torture was the day before Pilate “granted Joseph” the body “to bury”; was the day before Joseph “took down the body” from the cross, and “away”; was the day before, Joseph “prepared the body” for burial “according to the custom of the Jews”.
(3) It means, after the Son of God had been crucified and died – after his work that long day of shame and torture had been completed – He the following day, before the last rays of the setting sun ushered in the sacred hours of the Sabbath Day, had been laid in Joseph’s tomb.
(4) It means the Son of Man rose from the dead, death and the grave “First Sheaf Wave Offering Before the LORD”, “In Sabbath’s time fully, after noon, before the First Day of the week”, “the third day according to the Scriptures”!

Respect for detail equals respect for God’s Word; neglect of detail equals disrespect for God’s Word. One needs no knowledge of the Greek to see the detail – to see enough of it to the better understanding of and proper respect for, God’s Word.


Gerhard Ebersöhn
Suite 324
Private Bag 43
Sunninghill 2157
biblestudents@imaginet.co.za
http://www.biblestudents.co.za

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Speakin' of hermeneutics by methodol... -

Ed

Yes! Unfortunately I didn't say, 'methodology' in '...', because it's not my word, but my learned critic's.

The method or 'methodolgy', is: Ignore, don't see. Simple. E.g., Text quoted "Moses climbed up the mountain"; text quoted: "and he jumped off it". Hermeneutics ('meaning') Moses performed a miracle no one has noticed before. Meanwhile a whole Bible, or more than it, could lie in between. Still the conclusion is true - 2+2=4.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Sutton:
"FTR, "the Son of God" never "lay in" the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, at all; His body, which Joseph had asked for, (Mk. 15:43-45) was laid in the tomb by Joseph (Mt. 27:60), aided by Nicodemus. (Jn. 19:39-40)"

GE
Thanks for pointing out Ed Sutton!

Again, I employ the 'terminology' (big learned word, hey?) of EG White. Now I have made another mistake, I typed 'EG White', instead of E. G. White. Sorry man!

By the way, I am one ignorant fellow -- what does 'FTR' stand for? Thanks so long.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

FTR, "the Son of God" never "lay in" the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, at all; His body, which Joseph had asked for, (Mk. 15:43-45) was laid in the tomb by Joseph (Mt. 27:60), aided by Nicodemus. (Jn. 19:39-40)

The Son of God (Mt. 27:54) had dismissed His Spirit into the Father's hand (Lk. 23:46) and He was not hanging around any grave for any 'funeral service', for He had some place to be - namely Paradise, where He had someone He was going to be there to greet. (Lk. 23:43) In fact, the only time the Son of God ever 'spent' in the tomb (for any reason), was merely 'stopping' long enough to 'pick up' His resurrected body! (Jn. 2:19-22) And even then, after that, He had some place else to go, namely to present Himself before the Father. (Jn. 20:17)

Ed

GE

I am as hopeless with metaphysics as with physics. So I'll only say about, "And even then, after that, He had some place else to go, namely to present Himself before the Father. (Jn. 20:17)

I believe Jesus' 'presentation / offering' of Himself "before the LORD", "First Sheaf Wave Offering", was physical. "Many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." Christ was "raised in the glory of the Father"; He was raised, the Father's only glory -- in the flesh, bodily, by the "exceeding greatness of God's Powere, WHEN, He raised Him from the dead." Do not bring another 'gospel', near me! The Father raised up the Son; the Son raised Himself; the Son was raised by the Holy Spirit - for every claim there is clearest of Scripture we both know. So don't bring near me another gospel than the Good the News of Christ raised in most intimate Fellowship of the Trinity. And He was so raised, in the flesh, and so "CAME", in the flesh, which was, ON EARTH, IN the grave, "ON Sabbath's fulness of day". "God soloved the WORLD, He made the WORLD - OUR world, both His Throne and Footstool.

 

[EdSutton]

Ed Sutton:
"FTR, "the Son of God" never "lay in" the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, at all; His body, which Joseph had asked for, (Mk. 15:43-45) was laid in the tomb by Joseph (Mt. 27:60), aided by Nicodemus. (Jn. 19:39-40)"

GE
Thanks for pointing out Ed Sutton!

Again, I employ the 'terminology' (big learned word, hey?) of EG White. Now I have made another mistake, I typed 'EG White', instead of E. G. White. Sorry man!

By the way, I am one ignorant fellow -- what does 'FTR' stand for? Thanks so long.

FTR, "FTR" is an "acronym", in that the initials are 'shorthand' for "For The Record", just as "IMO" stands for "In My Opinion", at least as I use acronyms.

I refuse to use "IMHO", as do many, here where the "H" stands for someone's (usually, not so) "humble" opinion.

Ed

 

[BobRyan]

Yes - when Jesus said "It is finished" He was telling the truth.

When Jesus mentioned the "work" in Matt 16 he again emphasizes events prior to actual death -- then rising again.

Jesus never says "I am going to die so that while dead I can do some serious work".

When the Angel says "He has RISEN" in Luke 24:6 -- he speaks "the truth".

The wild imaginings of mankind not withstanding.

When the theif say "remember me WHEN you COME INTO your KINGDOM" Luke 23
Christ responds "truly I say to you today you WILL be with Me in Paradise" -- that future promise awaits the theif at the resurrection
"And so (in this way) shall we EVER be WITH the Lord" 1Thess 4 for

Christ said "I will COME AGAIN and RECEIVE you to Myself that WHERE I am THERE you may be ALSO" John 14.

I am going to have to go with the Word of God on this!

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Are you SDA?

Kinda makes you wonder why GE prefers to start with our familiar reference to Ellen White as if this is what we are all reading here.

(Though GE's writings are somewhat rambling and obtuse at times - in this case what he is not showing distinctly is that there is only one line - at the top of the OP and the top of the 2nd post that is actually a statement from Ellen White - the rest is "pure GE rambling".)

My preference is to just go with the Bible - no GE-ism for me.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[EdSutton]

GE

I am as hopeless with metaphysics as with physics. So I'll only say about, "And even then, after that, He had some place else to go, namely to present Himself before the Father. (Jn. 20:17)

I believe Jesus' 'presentation / offering' of Himself "before the LORD", "First Sheaf Wave Offering", was physical. "Many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." Christ was "raised in the glory of the Father"; He was raised, the Father's only glory -- in the flesh, bodily, by the "exceeding greatness of God's Powere, WHEN, He raised Him from the dead." Do not bring another 'gospel', near me! The Father raised up the Son; the Son raised Himself; the Son was raised by the Holy Spirit - for every claim there is clearest of Scripture we both know. So don't bring near me another gospel than the Good the News of Christ raised in most intimate Fellowship of the Trinity. And He was so raised, in the flesh, and so "CAME", in the flesh, which was, ON EARTH, IN the grave, "ON Sabbath's fulness of day". "God soloved the WORLD, He made the WORLD - OUR world, both His Throne and Footstool.

I'm not sure why you are 'raising' (no pun, intended) any "metaphysics" issue, here, for my point was, likewise, that the "presentation" of the Son to the Father was physical, as well. One could get sidetracked here, I guess, by relying on a translation or translations that render Jesus' words to Mary as "Do not 'touch' me...", I guess, but that is a less than isdeal rendering here, IMO. I suggest that the NASB is much clearer, here, in this rendering of John 20:17:

17Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to (A)My brethren and say to them, 'I (B)ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (Jn. 20:17 - NASB, my emphasis)

A short time after the encounter with Mary, Jesus was "held by his feet" (Mt. 28:9), and he specifically said to the disciples to "Handle Me and see..." (Lk. 24:39), less than 24 hrs, by any reckoning, of the encounter with Mary, and later, 'commanded' Thomas to place his hands into Jesus' side. (Jn. 20: 27)

The point was not "to avoid any 'physical contact'", at all, in His words to Mary, but rather to announce that His work was of a greater scope, than Mary was realizing. He was no longer going to be here, 'physically' in the presence of Mary, in the manner in which she had known, and He was telling her this, in so many words.

By no stretch, am I ever presenting what can even be remotely constrained as "another 'gospel'", in any manner, whatsoever, for I have no intention of having any such near me, just as you say, as well.

Ed

 

[BobRyan]

Ed said

Quote:
17Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to (A)My brethren and say to them, 'I (B)ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'" (Jn. 20:17 - NASB, my emphasis)

A short time after the encounter with Mary, Jesus was "held by his feet" (Mt. 28:9), and he specifically said to the disciples to "Handle Me and see..." (Lk. 24:39), less than 24 hrs, by any reckoning, of the encounter with Mary, and later, 'commanded' Thomas to place his hands into Jesus' side. (Jn. 20: 27)

You have exactly nailed the reason that Christ does not focus on "The work he was doing while dead" -- His argument at the moment of resurrection is that he does need to go before the Father and make that official presentation - to get the offical sanctioned approval from the Father that the law is fully satisfied.

And as you note - this must have been done by the time He meets with Thomas but had not been done when Mary met him.

The point is not that "Christ is not God or does not know something" the point is that God the Father and God the Son have conducted the execution of the plan of salvation in a way that is public and formal as we see in Daniel 7 "the court sat the books were opened.... myriads and myriads were in attendance".

The "Court of heaven" is something God uses to proclaim both his love and His justice.

As we see even in the case of Job 1 and Job 2 God allows for objections to be raised and official verifiable evidence to be presented in those "Court of heaven" contexts.

What's the point of creating intelligent beings like the Angels if He is going to continually revert to a "trust me and don't think this one through" solution?

In fact what is the point of 6000 years of sin and suffering on earth if there is nothing here being "demonstrated" or "proved"?

Why not simply "snip lucifer out of existence" prior to his tempting one single loyal angel?

Better yet - why not "redirect Lucifer's cycle of thought" before he even knows he is thinking about questioning God and save God the death of His son?

It shows an "extreme degree of integrity and accounting" with God that he takes NONE of those shortcuts.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

FTR, "FTR" is an "acronym", in that the initials are 'shorthand' for "For The Record", just as "IMO" stands for "In My Opinion", at least as I use acronyms.

I refuse to use "IMHO", as do many, here where the "H" stands for someone's (usually, not so) "humble" opinion.

Ed

GE
And I have always thought IMHO stands for 'in my HONEST opinion'!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Sutton, your post 16 referring,

We two can at least speak to one another; we sometimes - it seems - can even agree! It's a good feeling man! Pleasant!

About John 20:14-17, I have at several times on this forum made reference to it and have given my 'MMO' on it. Yes, 'Don't cling to me' is far better. However, what about the most literal 'interpretation' possible? According to JUST the English (KJV), Mary never as much as touches Jesus! From where the idea she wanted to cling to his feet, but jesus said, No? Rather the impression is Jesus prevented Mary to touch him simply by commissioning her to go proclaim the Gospel. According the literal Greek, one may visualise the following: Mary bows down in order to look into the tomb, sees two angels, converses with them, then standing up, turning around all in one movement, seeing the 'gardener' she approaches him and asks about Jesus. Then the interesting part: As Jesus spoke to her, Mary, while she recognised Him, apparently shocked, turned her back on Jesus her head bent down in awe and amazement (her hands over her eyes?). While in this position, the voice of Jesus comes, "Go straight on, don't stay (as if) clung to me, go tell!"

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

BR:
"Christ does not focus on "The work he was doing while dead" "

GE
But you SDAs are! You say He "rested in the tomb". You say, Jesus by 'resting in the tomb', "obeyed the Commandment"; you say He by 'resting in the tomb' sanctified the Sabbath. Now are these the works of God, yes or no! Is God's rest and act of His, or, God 'doing' nothing. It not even is a logicallly possible concept; what the thing God in Christ was DOING in the grave!