Did Jesus turn the water into wine, or grape juice

wow. can't win, so close the board!

 

If you deny Luke then you deny the Scriptures for they are just pasted word for word. If you have a problem with Jesus saying the Kingdom is within you that is your problem not mine.

 

The said quote that has so-called been refuted many times referred to the lion and the lamb lying together in the Millennial kingdom. If this has been refuted so many times where is the refutation? Or is this a lie, and a false allegation?
I said plainly that I am speaking of an actual kingdom to come that Christ is referring to and posted Scripture to that effect. It is not a mystical kingdom. Lions and lambs do not live in mysticism. </font>[/QUOTE]The post refuting the Kingdom as being mystical and magical was aimed at Brother Bob, not you, and was more of a generalization because of the abuse of that particular passage.

The refutation about the lion and the lamb is the fact that they do not appear together anywhere in Scripture! (Well, together in the same verse, but not "together" as in lying down or eating together.) It's often misquoted by those who think it's in there, and these same people often twist other Scriptures, such as ones about wine, celibacy of priests, etc.

 

Brother Bob,

Luke 17:21 does indeed have the very words of Christ Himself affirming that the kinddom of God is within you.

that word 'within' is the Greek word 'entos' meaning 'inside'.

 

Two groups when Jesus was here those with him and those who called him a winebibber.

 

It is wrong because you use the word according to your own definition, which is incorrect. It is simply name-calling. You don't have the correct definition of a legalist. Paul dealt with legalists during his ministry. The Judaizers were legalists. They wanted to require circumcision and keeping the O.T. law as a further requirement for being saved. It was legalism. There is no one here saying that if you drink wine you will lose your salvation, or if you don't go to church on Sunday you can't be saved, etc. That is what a legalist is.
The weakest form of argument in a debate is name-calling. People resort to it when they have lost the debate. When you don't have an argument you call people names because you don't have anything else to say. When the debate goes that low, it is better to say nothing at all.
DHK

 

it is not that we have nothing to say, we have said much pertaining to the truth that is written in God's Word. It is just that some, in their attempt to justify their own version of how the scripture should be translated, fail to take into account the law of first mention. First time fermented wine is mentioned in the Bible, it is associated with a curse. There are curses all throughout the Bible when fermented wine is apparent.

 

I do not feel I loss anything, i and others have stated our case with more sense and use of scripture than anyone else has on the subject.

your defenition of legalism and me and my husbands is different, just read what Jesus said to the pharasees about the matter. has this topic of legalism and what it means been discussed before maybe i will start a thread on that

 

BB, I think Frenchy meant to put an apostrophe in there. was funny though. lol

 

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Isaiah 11:7-8 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

I had posted these Scriptures before.
It speaks of the wolf and the lamb; the leopard and the kid; the calf and the lion and the fatling; A young child shall lead them.
--All of the above is in one verse. The lion and the lamb are mentioned in the same verse. The wolf and the lamb are animals that will lie down together. I believe your objection doesn't hold water. The argument is that nature will return to what it was before the Fall, as these verses indicate. Instead of dwelling on a slight misquotation, why not refute the verses themselves.
DHK

 

I think people quote lion and lamb and we see pictures and figurines, is because it is way more cute than wolf and lamb.

but to be biblically correct would be to quote wolf and lamb.

 

Marcia asked: What do you think of Deu.14:26, which mentions wine and strong drink (but in context of the Millennial Kingdom).
I answered that if in a perfect creation before the fall, drunkeness would have been impossible, and was made possible only because of the curse, then what will nature itself be like during the Millennial kingdom without the curse. Will the corrupt fermentation process still be in existence under the rule of Christ? It is speculation. But if drunkenness is sin, would Christ in his perfect millennial kingdom provide the wherewithal to become drunk. After all there will be no curse. The verses provided show how the curse was removed.
DHK

 

I do remember the OP wanted this thread closed. am i wrong?

 

Ephesians 5:18: And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

It doesn't say "grape juice". "Wherin" refers to drunkenness, not wine. "Excess" is from "riot"; profligacy. See Luke 15:13 on "riotous living":

Luke 15:13 And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.

Now, feel free to twist away, and say that the Bible condemns wine, but the truth is here in the Word of God.