Did Judas repent?

Don.

Scripture shows John referring to himself with others using we and us. Like it or not it is there. Scripture shows the Disciple Jesus loved spoken about in many verses, His name never being used. John refers to that Disciple running with Peter. Luke records Peter running alone. Later said "THEY" found Him not. "They" does not refer to one person.

In Acts they chose another to take Judas' place so Judas can go to his own place. Something a dead man can not do.

I assume the Disciple on Christ's breast is one of the twelve Disciples, and that the others know his name. That they choose not to use his name. That Luke did not even choose to record that disciple running with Peter. A writer that went into great lengths to record facts, as he said himself.

(LUKE 1:3) It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, (KJV)
(LUKE 1:4) That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed. (KJV)

When you chose to use the word "ERROR". That is your opinion, For you are also making assumptions from the verses. For any verse that shows things differently then another opens up a need to select which one is correct, if either of them are.

I wrote the "Scripture blasting me about the Devil not being God's Holy name" because it is a major difference in what is believed and I see almost no verses against it. I believe it is called Prodding.

The Devil is God's Holy name, It stands for "The Living God."
Satan is a name for the Word of God.
Lucifer is seeing Jesus in hell.

There is a difference in usage for these names as I see it.

Zechariah 3:2:

(ZECHARIAH 3:1) And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. (KJV)

Note who is standing to RESIST him. For later this will show up as the Lord Himself resisting Joshua.

(ZECHARIAH 3:2) And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? (KJV)

The LORD can refer to either God the Father, or Jesus as Lord. But the Word of God refers to only Jesus. and Satan is a name for the Word of God.

Joshua the High priest. More then likely the one who followed Moses was a High Priest under God's law given to Moses. Recorded as Moses' minister. He would have had to be a Levite to go into the tabernacle.

Jesus made the declaration the day of the cross "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." Being a High Priest, or following the law given through Moses then would not be sufficient for Joshua to come unto God. Not by sacrificing for sin, Etc to enter into the Holy of Holies. He has to come through Jesus.

As this is a vision. It can be for when Joshua was dead and in the grave. If the Lord God Almighty (God the Father) is rebuking what Jesus said then it is the Lord rebuking Satan, or the words Jesus spoke,

Jesus had to fulfill every jot and tittle of the law and prophecies. One of the prophecies involves a Covenant that Jesus had to make, and that God would void.

God blinded the nation of Israel in Isaiah 29:10/12 as in a deep sleep. Coming through Jesus was not a option. The Prophets, the seers and the rulers were sealed. That is outside seeing what the vision is. They could not see Jesus the day of the cross as the Christ. (exception is when they return early and ask Him to come down from the cross.)

Not being able to see Jesus as the Messiah, they could in no way come through Jesus by belief in Jesus, Just by His taking away sin that separated man from God.

(ISAIAH 29:10) For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 29:11) And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: (KJV)

Here is the covenant God voided: Note this is for Jesus, and Jesus is David's physical son.

(PSALMS 89:35) Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:36) His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:37) It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:38) But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:39) Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground. (KJV)

God's word says Jesus is CAST OFF. Satan is a name for the WORD OF GOD. Satan casting out Satan. A house divided as a God with eyes purer to look on iniquity can not look at His Son with the iniquity of us all.

(ZECHARIAH 3:3) Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. (KJV)

"We have ALL TOGETHER become a unclean thing, all our righteousness is as filthy rags." Joshua has his own righteousness as filthy garments.

(ZECHARIAH 3:4) And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment. (KJV)

The Change of Raiment is when Jesus renders to man His righteousness in Job 33:26 which is when Jesus is on the cross. Taking away the filthy garments is when Jesus take upon Himself the iniquity of us all. Our righteousness might seem righteous to us. But it is as iniquity compared to the righteousness of Christ.

(ZECHARIAH 3:5) And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord stood by. (KJV)

Jesus is dead when He is the Angel of the Lord. The day of the cross Jesus who is the House of David is AS GOD, and as the Angel of the Lord because He will be dead part of this day.

(ZECHARIAH 12:8) In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them. (KJV)

(ZECHARIAH 3:6) And the angel of the Lord protested unto Joshua, saying, (KJV)

NOTE WHO IS PROTESTING. Satan was standing at His right hand to RESIST. And it is the LORD (Jesus) who is protesting.

The "Right Hand" is Sunset to Midnight as Jesus takes the sin of the world. 10,000 fall at His right hand which is the 10 Disciples fleeing, make 1,000 time more then they are by Deuteronomy 1:11

(ZECHARIAH 3:7) Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. (KJV)

Walk in My ways is to be a believer in Christ. or coming to the Father through the Son.

(ZECHARIAH 3:8) Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch. (KJV)

People wondering about the Priesthood seeing Jesus is saying that through Himself alone is access to God. Jesus being the Vine, Disciples as branches. Peter would be the BRANCH.

(ZECHARIAH 3:9) For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. (KJV)

Jesus is the Stone of Stumbling, Jesus is the Rock. The Lamb seen in Revelation which is Jesus has 7 horns and 7 eyes. The day of the cross as 7 time periods is all the 7's in Revelation.

The Stone is engraved: "I will never forget you, I have you graven upon the PALMS of My Hands." Jesus taking the sin of the world removes the iniquity or all the land.

(ZECHARIAH 3:10) In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree. (KJV)

All became one in Christ.

(ZECHARIAH 4:1) And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep. (KJV)

They are as dead in the grave in the vision. Zechariah would be dead in the grave when he saw this happen. They are in a sleep till Jesus died for sin.

(ZECHARIAH 4:2) And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, And behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: (KJV)

Here is the day of the cross seen as 7 time periods, here is what the book of Revelation is showing, this is what the entire Bible is showing.

Satan casting out Satan is the Word of God says because of sin Jesus is cast out, Jesus has to go into hell to fulfill Scripture. A house divided.

(ACTS 26:18) To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. (KJV)

The Disciples never got past the seal in Daniel 9:24 to see sin ended as accountable unto man, So this is spoken not seeing sin ended. The day of the cross is as 7 days, as 7 eyes. The day of the cross is the birth of the Body of Christ seen in Psalms 2:6/7. Cursed and taken out of time and made as DARKNESS in Job 3:3/6

Turning them from Darkness to light is to see what God did the day of the cross, And from the power of God's word (Satan) unto God. They do not see they are already redeemed, what the real relationship is with the Father.

For it is the WORDS of God which show this. For the Words have the power to show we are ONE with God. It is not in words written but when we get into the Relationship because we understand the words that we turn from the power of the words to relationship with God.

Seeing the FAITH that is in Christ, rendered to man with His righteousness in Job 33:26 that links us to God eternally. No separation at all. ever, this needs to be seen.

For by Grace are we saved, through Faith (Jesus rendered to man His righteousness which included His Faith, His works, His baptism of repentance, etc.) and that not of ourselves, it is a Gift of God.

And the Gifts and callings of God are WITHOUT REPENTANCE.

So all our righteousness is as filthy rags, because Jesus gave us His. And we are all made Kings and Priests because that is what the Body of Christ is. As they dressed Joshua in Zechariah 3:5, So are we clothed.

(REVELATION 12:9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (KJV)

This is the day of the cross, Michael is Judas, the Battle is on the Mount of Olives. Old Heaven ended at Midnight. So there place is not found in heaven anymore. Old earth is Midnight to sunrise, at Sunrise the third beast with 6-wings, Having the Face of a man, From which Heaven and Earth will flee, Old heaven and earth that is.

(GENESIS 3:1) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (KJV)

The Creation story is a similitude, the Garden is the day of the cross as 4 6-hour periods, the River in the Garden is divided into 4 heads. Jesus is the Serpent. To eat of the Fruit is to believe in the Son. Jesus is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

That is most of what Jesus was saying during His ministry for three years and a half. Showing what was really good, and the ways man was doing them was evil.

(MATTHEW 5:22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (KJV)

(MATTHEW 5:23) Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; (KJV)
(MATTHEW 5:24) Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. (KJV)

(MATTHEW 5:27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (KJV)
(MATTHEW 5:28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (KJV)

Jesus MAGNIFIED the law. He took it directly into the heart. He showed what was good, and He showed what was evil. He is the Knowledge of that. He is the fruit of that tree.

(GENESIS 3:14) And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: (KJV)
(GENESIS 3:15) And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. (KJV)

All the curses in the book lie upon Jesus. The day of the cross is as 7 days. The Dust seen as the seed of Abraham. (Meat you know not of) Cursed ABOVE ABOVE. Eve is the Jewish Nation. The first 6-hours for the day of the cross, the 10 Disciples seen as toes, Peter and Judas seen as heels.

Jesus is the Serpent, He is the Head of the first 6-hour period, and the Woman's heel bruised Christ's head. Judas had to be first under the law to smite Jesus.

(PSALMS 41:9) Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
(KJV)

Jesus was made by God. Jesus is the Physical son of David as God said, not as man said.

(ISAIAH 43:7) {Even} every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. (KJV)

Jesus is David's son, Made by God as all people are.

(2SAMUEL 7:12) And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. (KJV)
(2SAMUEL 7:13) He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. (KJV)
(2SAMUEL 7:14) I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: (KJV)

(LUKE 1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (KJV)

CALLED, CALLED, CALLED, But Jesus is the son of DAVID.

(ACTS 2:30) Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; (KJV)

(ACTS 2:31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. (KJV)
NOT LEFT IN WHERE? Baptists do not believe Jesus went to hell, Now who told me that one?

(ROMANS 1:3) Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; (KJV)

"Thou SON OF DAVID", I noticed the post on this got no response other then Star. What was the Problem? Too much Scripture that shows Jesus is the physical son of David that died seven days old, Reborn 1,000 years later at Bethlehem.

(PSALMS 90:4) For a thousand years in thy sight {are but} as yesterday when it is past, and {as} a watch in the night. (KJV)

The day of the cross is as 1,000 years as yesterday when it is past, so move the 1,000 years David's child was dead with God to the day of the cross also to be fulfilled there.

David's child born outside wedlock was smitten by God and sick. The Child died on the seventh day. Mothers should know this, You place a sick infant on their BELLY. "And Thou shalt crawl upon Thy belly all the days of your life (all seven) and eat dust. Good things babies do not eat dust "And all the curses in this book shall lie upon That Man."

"Before it is too late?" Want to hear about GRACE? Paul spoke of Grace, But then God had to tell Paul His grace was sufficient. I wonder why Paul did not know that? He must have been speaking incorrectly.

STAR:
Jesus seen by the Eleven was just after He appeared to the two men on the road to Emmanus. This would have been the evening after Jesus was resurrected Sunday (Saturday on God's calendar. The day of the cross was to be taken out of time.) Morning. Evening would have started the next day.

Thomas would not see Jesus till eight days later. So if Jesus Appeared to ELEVEN Disciples THEN. Scripture showing one Disciple (Thomas) was missing, then Judas had to be present there to make ELEVEN THEN.

Don does not want to use Paul referring to Jesus seen of the TWELVE as Paul was not there or a Disciple then. Who physically was there to bear witness to the events is then also a question. Was Mark or Luke around then? The Disciples had fled, Who shows the events around the Crucifixion? Who shows what the Priest's words were to Judas? "You see to that.", Did Judas make a note, put it in a bottle and set it adrift in the Jordan before he hanged himself?

Who is the Person who testifieth of these things?

(JOHN 21:24) This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. (KJV)

WE WE WE (John being part of the WE) know that HIS HIS HIS testimony is true. The Rooster squealed on Peter, maybe the Bird told?

(ECCLESIASTES 10:20) Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter. (KJV)

I don't think you are confused Star, I think you have the correct answer already. John uses the right grammar. He was referring to another running with Peter, not himself. And besides Revelation we have 1-John, 2-John, 3-John also.

(1JOHN 1:1) That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (KJV)

WE WE WE? John must be french. Tired make me this way. Usually very serious.

ken1burton

 

Ken,

I think you bring up alot of verses to consider here (both from Old and New Testaments). Makes good sense to me, thank you for sharing your perspective its worth consideration because its obvious you are looking into the scriptures considering things I personally had not looked into going to the lengths you have. Especially considering John had no problem refering to himself as, "I John" in the book of Revelation but does NOT do the same in the gospels in regards to that particular disciple others (including myself) attributed to John. Theres no question after considering John's abilty to mention himself if its himself he's speaking of. So that argument cannot stand in light of this fact alone. With the two books to consider the argument against John not mentioning "himself" difuses in light of this. So I have to agree with Ken because this argument was used to refute him but that cannot stand in light of this.

My personal opinion according to what scriptures seem to clearly show.

In Him Kim

 

Don.

Isn't the real problem here that I am saying Judas is the Disciple Jesus loved? Either way. John is not the one. Make the Disciple who Jesus loved as a unknown mystery. But John has been eliminated from the race.

ken1burton

 

Ken, on how you're connecting Revelation with all of this and how the day of the cross fulfilled it all: Revelation was written after that day, and it was written as prophecy....things to come in the future, NOT things that happened in the past.
BBL with comments on some verses.
Gina

 

Ken,

Can you show this (what Gina is asking for) in a more simplified manner? Such as separating what seems to melt together like butter for you?

Go slowly with it... Can you approach one concept at a time? Or can you show it with more emphasis on the spiritual truths connected to the numbers verses the other way around?

Just wondering... Once those numbers start kicking in I get flashbacks of my checkbook experiences lol!

In Him Kim

 

Me too AITB,

It was always irking me and when explained it just wasn't registering within me with an amen, it always left one of those unresolved doubts, its good to hear another veiw on this personally

In Him Kim

 

Gina.

The book of Revelation. Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ (Given to Jesus Himself) to show unto His Servants (The Disciples, Which stopped being refered to as SERVANTS in John 15:15.)Thing that must shortly come to pass.

He is given 42 months to continue in Revealtion. That is three and a half years. Christ's Ministry before going to the Cross.

Jesus is carried by the Spirit into the Wilderness. That is the day of the cross as a house built. Jesus is TEMPTED. What is happening is Jesus is being shown what will happen to Him being the Christ.

He is told to Command the Stones to be made bread. He has to fulfill every jot and tittle of the law and prophecies. Jesus is the BREAD of Life, But He has to do what God said He would do. and what would be done to Him. He has to take it.

He is told to Cast Himself Down. That Band of men (angels) with Judas can not take Jesus if He is unwilling to let them have power over Him. "And in their hands they shall bear Thee up.", This is upon a cross at Golgotha.

"fall down and worship Me, and all the Kingdoms of the World will I give You." Which Jesus does get. He is given all power in Heaven and in Earth, He has to allow Himself to die to get them though. That is what God is asking Jesus. Lay down your life for the others.

Jesus being shown what lies in store for Him, is taken back by the Spirit. Then starts the 42 month ministry.

(REVELATION 1:1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: (KJV)

(JOHN 15:15) Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. (KJV)

They gather the Vine of the Earth. That is Jesus the true vine. The fourth seal is the pale horse. That is noon to sunset. the day as 4 6-hour periods as 4 beasts with 6-wings.

The rider on the pale horse is DEATH, Hell followed him. Jesus died and descended into hell then. DEATH WAS DEFEATED AT THE CROSS, DEATH does not return, we go from Absent from this Body to present with the Lord.

God's word is like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29. Death and hell are fulfilled the day of the cross as all the prophecies are fulfilled, so they are immersed in God's word as established and done. or cast into the lake of fire.

Stop to think of the ones telling you revelation is Future. You do not get to predict events till you get one right. When you predict one and it does not come true, You are then and there ESTABLISHED as a FALSE PROPHET.

Have the ones telling you Revelation is future also told you what was going to happen at Y2K? Have they not already been established as WRONG. Did they predict Jesus comind in 1988? many did. And everyone of them was ESTABLISHED as a False prophet.

If God was speaking through them, they would first tell you Jesus is not coming again physically. Jesus said so HIMSELF.

(JOHN 14:19) Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (KJV)

Do you want to throw out this that Jesus said and accept what two men in white in Acts said, seeing four Gospels writters did not record the two men in white, They recorded the Ascension. Why not what the two men said? Did they know about John 14:19? and not believe them.?

Ken1burton

 

To refute you once again, Ken:

Ken says Jesus is not coming again. Well, Jesus said He IS coming again. I believe Jesus, Ken, not you. And for the umpteenth time, Jesus is not satan, Ken.

Like the Ever-Ready Bunny, it keeps on going, and going, and going, and going...

...and going

...and going. Is there no end to this nonsense and blasphemy?

Disgusted again.

 

Eaglelives,

lol! You don't want to go there either! He uses Hosea 13:14

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, ((((I WILL BE THY PLAGUES))))); O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

So actually according to scripture death is swallowed up by God (Life) and God Himself (as stated in scripture) is THY PLAGUES.

Thats why He sees in places where God makes thy plagues WONDERFUL (duet 28:59)

becauseeeeeeeeeeeeee... God is wonderful Wonderful conselor? Wonderful Plagues? I will be thy Plagues? His name is Terrible?

I believe these are some of the scriptures (Ken please correct me if I'm wrong here) he uses, all biblical concerning God.

Gee, I never saw God as a "plague" before but scripture shows this, in fact its God himself saying that in scripture.

It keeps going because theres alot to look at and believe it or not the surface isn't even scratched yet. Want to scratch with us?

In Him Kim

 

Hosea 13:14 "Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
The beginning of this verse is God's promise to His people. The second part is His judgement on the rest. His judgement is forever: after all is said and done, there will be no death, and it will be too late to for repentance.
As far as plagues...the word "wonderful" can be used simply to say what it does. A car accident can be "wonderful". The word itself carries no implication of good or bad. Yes, to the enemies of Christ, His judgment will not be good for them. Hosea describes what He will be like to them. In no way, shape, or form is the word plague descriptive of God with His people, only with His enemies.
Gina

 

Gina,

Who will save me from THIS BODY OF DEATH?(Believer?) O'Death I WILL BE THY PLAGUES, Is it what is MORTAL being swallowed up in Victory? Or is it MORTALITY swallowed up by LIFE?

Death and Hell go into the lake of fire, but God IS a CONSUMING FIRE? Death is seen being detroyed by God and agreement with Hell dissanulled (made void/cancelled)

#1 God destroys death
#2 God makes void Hell
#3 Both these go into the lake of fire called the second death
#4 God is a consuming fire

The lake of fire...

Fire= Gods word in scripture (Eternal word/fire)
Brimstone= His breath/Spirit
Eternal= God/ His Word

All these are attributes of God in the lake of Fire.

I think thats pretty interesting...

In Him Kim

 

KEN: The book of Revelation. Is the Revelation of Jesus Christ (Given to Jesus Himself) to show unto His Servants (The Disciples, Which stopped being refered to as SERVANTS in John 15:15.)Thing that must shortly come to pass.

GINA: Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
This is obviously a verse describing AFTER Christ's return. (or for you, after the cross) Yet His people are still referred to as servants.
The word "servant" used in John 15:15 was used in the sense of it's meaning in society, a servant did not have a the type of relationship with his master that a friend did. The way it's used in later verses is uniquely applied to those who follow Christ.

KEN: He is given 42 months to continue in Revealtion. That is three and a half years. Christ's Ministry before going to the Cross.

GINA: I don't know what you're talking about with the 42 months here. Please explain.

KEN: Jesus is carried by the Spirit into the Wilderness. That is the day of the cross as a house built. Jesus is TEMPTED. What is happening is Jesus is being shown what will happen to Him being the Christ.

He is told to Command the Stones to be made bread. He has to fulfill every jot and tittle of the law and prophecies. Jesus is the BREAD of Life, But He has to do what God said He would do. and what would be done to Him. He has to take it.

GINA: What God said? Is this Satan giving Jesus commandments, or are you saying Satan is God, or what?

KEN: He is told to Cast Himself Down. That Band of men (angels) with Judas can not take Jesus if He is unwilling to let them have power over Him. "And in their hands they shall bear Thee up.", This is upon a cross at Golgotha.

GINA: Where do you get that the men with Judas were angels? Men are not angels, neither are they referred to as such.
Jesus was being tempted, mocked, by Satan, NOT being encouraged to fulfill God's will. Look at the response of Jesus. Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

KEN continues: "fall down and worship Me, and all the Kingdoms of the World will I give You." Which Jesus does get. He is given all power in Heaven and in Earth, He has to allow Himself to die to get them though. That is what God is asking Jesus. Lay down your life for the others.

GINA Again Matthew 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
Look at the response.
This is not God asking Jesus to go to the cross, this is Satan tempting Jesus.
It doesn't connect.

KEN: The rider on the pale horse is DEATH, Hell followed him. Jesus died and descended into hell then. DEATH WAS DEFEATED AT THE CROSS, DEATH does not return, we go from Absent from this Body to present with the Lord.

GINA: JESUS overcame death. It could have no power over HIM. Death and hell still are very real realities for people.

KEN: God's word is like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29. Death and hell are fulfilled the day of the cross as all the prophecies are fulfilled, so they are immersed in God's word as established and done. or cast into the lake of fire.

GINA: Huh? It's also like a hammer in the same verse. How does it relate to your point? The Bible is the lake of fire and all of the prophecies are cast into it when they're done?

KEN: Stop to think of the ones telling you revelation is Future. You do not get to predict events till you get one right. When you predict one and it does not come true, You are then and there ESTABLISHED as a FALSE PROPHET.

GINA: It is not men that say this that make me believe it. Most of the world either does not believe in the scriptures or believes that they have already been fulfilled. What I believe has to do with what I believe the bible says, and then I find fellowship with those that believe likewise. The bible is not a false prophet, nor do the pastors or people I associate myself with call themselves prophets or attempt to prophesy. The scriptures do this on their own.

KEN: Have the ones telling you Revelation is future also told you what was going to happen at Y2K? Have they not already been established as WRONG. Did they predict Jesus comind in 1988? many did. And everyone of them was ESTABLISHED as a False prophet.

If God was speaking through them, they would first tell you Jesus is not coming again physically. Jesus said so HIMSELF.

(JOHN 14:19) Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (KJV)

GINA: No, the people I'm around that believe as I do have never attempted to say WHEN His return will be. I've heard of people doing that, but the scriptures say that nobody can know. There are signs given to show the nearness of it, but that's it.
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more. He will not be able to be viewed physically. But ye see me: those that are saved and have knowledge of him still can see him spiritually. Because I live, ye shall live also. Self explanatory.
This was Jesus reassuring his disciples that although he would be physically gone, he would still with them spiritually. It is obviously speaking to them in that time, and not saying that he will never return, because he states that he will. He will NOT be seen as he was, he came to earth as a man. He is coming back in his full glory.

KEN: Do you want to throw out this that Jesus said and accept what two men in white in Acts said, seeing four Gospels writters did not record the two men in white, They recorded the Ascension. Why not what the two men said? Did they know about John 14:19? and not believe them.?

GINA: Is this the part where you start to say what parts of the bible are and aren't true, or am I misunderstanding?

 

God also is said to keep us safe under his wings. Does this mean he is a bird?
God also is said to be like a tower.
Does this mean he is a building?
God is also said to be in the midst of waters.
Does this mean he is a fish?
The word is said to be a lamp.
Does this mean he is made of glass and oil?
Gina

 

lol! No Gina, God using various things in creative comparisons to show the Spiritual attributes of Himself... God is Spirit.

Rock, Serpent, Lamb, fire, Light Vine etc are similitudes to Him. You lose the concrete and find the spiritual truth. Jesus was not a real "Baa baa" lamb, it was a physical representation used throughout scripture with meaning attachment to them.

A similitude (Which Hosea says God speaks using) is a creative comparison which solid form is a immitation In other words God used creative comparisons to show Jesus Christ who is the True Solid form of the similitude. It always spoke of Him as Jesus said. He is the Truth of them The Word made flesh the manifestation The similitudes are just a likeness Just as Adam was a similitude of Him who was to come (Namely Christ) and that Rock was Christ. The are spiritual and the greater Truth is not in the similitude itself but in Christ of whom they speak.

I don't see the "fire" as a "lit match" I see the fire as God Himself as a Spiritual fire who is by Nature Spirit and Eternal and whose Breath is as Brimestone= He BREATHED ON THEM= Holy Spirit/ Christs Breath, scripture says is Brimstone. So I believe what scripture says concerning this "brimstone" that its not what is understood by the letter of the word but in creative comparison, namely an attribute of God.

Did that bring clarity or bring confusion? Flip flop the concrete and see it in the spiritual light. These are spiritual truths.

Gina God is LIKENED to these things he is not these physical things, just as a similitude is a likeness or creative comparison to reduce God to the solid form by definition is an immitation.

In Him Kim

[ May 29, 2002, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Should I...?

I will say this to you Kim, anybody who tells me the KJV is hard to understand should read a few of your posts.

 

We meet again Mr. Curtis! Full of love warmth and the goodness of fruits ofcourse, I don't think I said anything that was not scripture. God speaks in similitudes, I described a similitude by definition showing Jesus is its Solid form, actually its very simple Christ crucified the word made flesh. Every similitude has a solid form and that is Jesus Christ. In other words these things were shadows but not the realities themselves the substance is in Jesus Christ.

Is that more simplfied for you Mr. Curtis?

In Him Kim

 

Yes Kim, but you were using those attributes in relation to the lake of fire. I could do the same thing by connecting the story of Jonah and the fish with God being surrounded by waters, or connecting it saying he has wings with him being in the clouds.
Point is, you can't build doctrines by doing so.
Gina

 

God speaks to me by making my gut wrench when I'm doing something I'm not supposed to do. And I don't mean to sound bad, but I can't get thru most of your posts. They make my tummy hurt. I'm not stupid, I have an electronics degree, & am working on a Doctrine class, I'm in charge of rooms full of automated test equipment, but I don't understand what you are saying 99% of the time. That's why I don't chime in too much.

(Probably should not chime in at all......)

John the Baptist was not an educated man, but people understood what he was saying. God's message is simple. It is us who have complicated it.

Star, I won't bother you anymore. I have noticed just about everyone I agree with has given up, also. Oh well. I don't know what else to say.

 

Gina,

I'm just comparing spiritual with spiritual not building a doctrine, but pointing out some very interesting things. I understand, we have to just differ among ourselves Besides I'm awfully beat and have to tend to a three year old all day, besides entertaining the neighborhood girls too lol! Lets call it a night, I might want to post when I'm more awake, goodnight

In Him Kim