Did King Solomon and Saul go to Heaven?

[evangelist6589]

This is the question I have pondered for years. I know that Jesus spoke well of Solomon, but we also know that he worshipped other God's, and fell from the faith later in life. However the doctrine of Perseverance of the faith is true I believe him to be in Heaven. If the Lordship teaching is 100% accurate he may be in Hell, but no doctrine is entirely Biblical and in the writings of Dr. Erwin Lutzer whom makes a case that some can fall in Homosexuality, fornication, among other sins, just end up in Heaven with fewer rewards may be a accurate case to describe Solomon. What say you?

King Saul I believe may be an easier case whom is probably in Heaven, but I do not know for certain.

 

[Van]

Some aspects of the Old Covenant differ from the new Covenant. To point to OT folks who apparently stopped trusting in God, as evidence for a lack of perseverance under the new Covenant is illogical.

Could a person, under the old covenant, who had gained approval by faith, lose that approval?
I say yes.

Were they sealed (during their lifetime) with the Holy Spirit as a pledge of an inheritance of eternal life? I say no.

If you are interested in this question, study Hebrews 11.

 

[evangelist6589]

Some aspects of the Old Covenant differ from the new Covenant. To point to OT folks who apparently stopped trusting in God, as evidence for a lack of perseverance under the new Covenant is illogical.

Could a person, under the old covenant, who had gained approval by faith, lose that approval?
I say yes.

Were they sealed (during their lifetime) with the Holy Spirit as a pledge of an inheritance of eternal life? I say no.

If you are interested in this question, study Hebrews 11.

The great hall of faith? I will read over the passage. Some argued that Samson went to Hell, until they read the great Hall of faith..... I read the passage but did not read about Saul or Solomon. Did I miss something?

 

[evangelist6589]

Some aspects of the Old Covenant differ from the new Covenant. To point to OT folks who apparently stopped trusting in God, as evidence for a lack of perseverance under the new Covenant is illogical.

Could a person, under the old covenant, who had gained approval by faith, lose that approval?
I say yes.

Were they sealed (during their lifetime) with the Holy Spirit as a pledge of an inheritance of eternal life? I say no.

If you are interested in this question, study Hebrews 11.

It is also true that in the OT the Holy Spirit did not indwell anyone as he does today. He came upon certain people, but did not live in anyone as He does today.

 

[kyredneck]

15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
19 Moreover Jehovah will deliver Israel also with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and to-morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: Jehovah will deliver the host of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines. 1 Sam 28

Where did Saul join Samuel? Was it a 'waiting place' for the righteous?

Hard for me to imagine a character like Solomon that was in the direct lineage of Christ and also an astounding type of Christ and who penned books of the Bible going to hell.

 

[kyredneck]

It is also true that in the OT the Holy Spirit did not indwell anyone as he does today......

15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy: I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite. Isa 57

 

[agedman]

It is also true that in the OT the Holy Spirit did not indwell anyone as he does today. He came upon certain people, but did not live in anyone as He does today.

I would like to see what Scripture is used to back this thinking.

I have heard it all my life, but I don't recall it ever being challenged as to the actual validity.

Some use the thinking that "upon" is not "in" (in the matter of indwelling) but in my opinion, that seems like a rather week argument.

 

[Van]

Does any know what was missed in Hebrews 11? "All these [OT saints] died in faith." (Verse 13). So is possible for an OT character, not sealed in Christ as a pledge of eternal life, to turn from God and die not "in faith?" If your answer is yes, then it would seem under the old covenant a person could lose their approval by faith.

 

[Van]

Calvinist sometimes claim the OT saints were indwelt. But they cite verses that merely indicate an OT saint was under the influence of the Holy Spirit, i.e. speaking inspired words.

However, this is a back door argument to claim the OT saints were regenerated, thus supporting the regeneration before faith fallacy.

However, scripture is clear:

1) We follow Christ in the regeneration.
2) When we are placed in Christ, we are baptized into His death.
3) Therefore no one (including all the OT saints of Hebrews 11) were placed in Christ before Christ died.
4) When we are placed in Christ, we are made alive (regenerated) together with Christ.
5) After we are in Christ, we are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit.
6) Therefore no one, including the OT Saints, were sealed (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit before Christ died.

It is a lock. The escape artists will tell us of time travel. But no scripture will be cited.

 

[agedman]

Calvinist sometimes claim the OT saints were indwelt. But they cite verses that merely indicate an OT saint was under the influence of the Holy Spirit, i.e. speaking inspired words.

However, this is a back door argument to claim the OT saints were regenerated, thus supporting the regeneration before faith fallacy.

However, scripture is clear:

1) We follow Christ in the regeneration.
2) When we are placed in Christ, we are baptized into His death.
3) Therefore no one (including all the OT saints of Hebrews 11) were placed in Christ before Christ died.
4) When we are placed in Christ, we are made alive (regenerated) together with Christ.
5) After we are in Christ, we are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit.
6) Therefore no one, including the OT Saints, were sealed (indwelt) with the Holy Spirit before Christ died.

It is a lock. The escape artists will tell us of time travel. But no scripture will be cited.

You ASSUME your view is correct denigrating a view while offering no support for the your view nor the denigration.

It is evident that the Holy Spirit was very involved in the OT.

The question is where is it PROVED that claiming some (for example: Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, David...) were indwelt with the Holy Spirit is error.

Do not fill your post with some derogatory statement upon a view and ignore proof supporting your own statements and expect the BB to consider your assumptions are valid.

 

[quantumfaith]

You ASSUME your view is correct denigrating a view while offering no support for the your view nor the denigration.

It is evident that the Holy Spirit was very involved in the OT.

The question is where is it PROVED that claiming some (for example: Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, David...) were indwelt with the Holy Spirit is error.

Do not fill your post with some derogatory statement upon a view and ignore proof supporting your own statements and expect the BB to consider your assumptions are valid.

I agree with you Agedman. I have also heard the OT/NT distinction of the Holy Spirit all my christian life and do not recall a great deal of support for it. We do have the pentecost event which seems to herald a new function of the Holy Spirit. That might be a point of discussion.

 

[kyredneck]

.... a new function of the Holy Spirit. That might be a point of discussion.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=74804

 

[evangelist6589]

I agree with you Agedman. I have also heard the OT/NT distinction of the Holy Spirit all my christian life and do not recall a great deal of support for it. We do have the pentecost event which seems to herald a new function of the Holy Spirit. That might be a point of discussion.

That seems to be the foundation of the argument and Jesus himself seems to teach that the HS did not indwell believes in the OT. Do you not agree?

 

[quantumfaith]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=74804

Thanks for sharing, at present, I would probably fall in category 4.

 

[quantumfaith]

That seems to be the foundation of the argument and Jesus himself seems to teach that the HS did not indwell believes in the OT. Do you not agree?

Remember, unlike you, I am a synergist. I do not understand all the intricacies that it might imply.

 

[Aaron]

This is the question I have pondered for years. I know that Jesus spoke well of Solomon, but we also know that he worshipped other God's, and fell from the faith later in life. However the doctrine of Perseverance of the faith is true I believe him to be in Heaven. If the Lordship teaching is 100% accurate he may be in Hell, but no doctrine is entirely Biblical and in the writings of Dr. Erwin Lutzer whom makes a case that some can fall in Homosexuality, fornication, among other sins, just end up in Heaven with fewer rewards may be a accurate case to describe Solomon. What say you?

King Saul I believe may be an easier case whom is probably in Heaven, but I do not know for certain.

Correction, Christ spoke well of the wisdom of Solomon, which was a Divine gift. No where is Solomon commended.

 

[pinoybaptist]

In view of Paul's statement to the former sodomites in Corinth "and such weresome of you, BUT..." and I suppose you know the rest, I disagree with Lutzer in saying that a TRUE regenerate Christian could fall into homosexuality (the willing seeking practice of it, IF that is what Lutzer means), particularly, and fornication (as in constant sex with others other than his/her spouse, KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY) rather than avoid these sins.

 

[evangelist6589]

In view of Paul's statement to the former sodomites in Corinth "and such weresome of you, BUT..." and I suppose you know the rest, I disagree with Lutzer in saying that a TRUE regenerate Christian could fall into homosexuality (the willing seeking practice of it, IF that is what Lutzer means), particularly, and fornication (as in constant sex with others other than his/her spouse, KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY) rather than avoid these sins.

One of his books he says that. Your Eternal Reward I believe.