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Did Mary think Jesus was "out of his mind"?
- Thread starter webdog
- Start date
Steven2006
New Member
Mar 3:21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. KJV
Mar 3:21 When His own people heard {of} {this,} they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses." NASB
I am not sure we should conclude Mary is included here.
Mar 3:21 When His own people heard {of} {this,} they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses." NASB
I am not sure we should conclude Mary is included here.
I think we tend to underestimate the scandal of Christ. He drove people to exasperation since He was not what anyone expected. He so completely overturned the religious expectations and "common sense" of the day, it was hard for many of them to accept... probably even for Mary.webdog said:
webdog said:
When I first read your post, I went to the nearest Bible that I had to read it for myself. It was a KJV. And it did not say "family" in Mark 3:21. It said "friends".
So....
I went to biblegateway.com and looked up Mark 3:21. I looked at 19 English speaking versions of the Bible.
9 said family.
5 said friends.
2 said his own people.
3 said kinsmen.
So based on that alone, I don't think that one can say with certainty that Mary was in the group of people in verse 21 that was calling him "crazy".
In fact, I don't think she was at all.
Verse 31 said that his mother and brother were NOT in the midst of that crowd of people....that they did not come until verse 31 and then stood on the outskirts and sent a message that they wished to speak to him (assumably alone). His brothers did NOT believe him at this time and were probably there to protect Mary.
I think she was trying to get him away from that crowd of people and was trying to protect him. She knew that he was destined for something sorrowful because Simeon had told her in the Temple (when Jesus was a baby; Luke 2) that Jesus had a great work to do and that her own soul would be pierced because of it. Indicating great sorrow on her part.
I think she was just trying to protect him.
That's why he wouldn't go to her. He said, "Who is my mother and my brother? Those who do the will of my Father are my mother and my brothers."
Just like when Mary and Joseph lost Jesus for three days and found him in the Temple, teaching. He said, "Didn't you know where I would be?"
I'm sure that it was difficult for her, as his mother, to let him go and fulfill his destiny. And I don't think is was a picnic for Jesus to reject her and say, "Who is my mother?" She didn't know everything about her son's future - she wasn't omniscient - but she knew it entailed sorrow.
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Steven2006
New Member
I'm sorry but IMO verse thirty-one only proves the opposite, that she arrived after the events of verse twenty-one
Mar 3:31 Then His mother and His brothers *arrived, and standing outside they sent {word} to Him and called Him.
Here are the same events in other gospel books.
Mat 12:46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.
Mat 12:47 Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
Luk 8:19 And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
.
Mar 3:31 Then His mother and His brothers *arrived, and standing outside they sent {word} to Him and called Him.
Here are the same events in other gospel books.
Mat 12:46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him.
Mat 12:47 Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
Luk 8:19 And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
.
Got to go with Steven on this. A normal reading of the text seems to clearly state that his mother and brothers arrived after His friends had charged that He was “beside himself”. With all that Mary had seen and experienced it is kinda hard to imagine that she would have been party to such an accusation – she had conceived in her womb at the mere Word of the Father!
Add to this her conduct at the foot of the cross – “Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother” (John 19:25). No doubt her mind and heart was full of the pain that had be prophesied by Simeon over 30 years ago. While we cannot make a strong argument from silence, all indications are that stood there in SILENCE. A gentle quiet submissive spirit seems to have been her attitude in her every appearance on the pages of the Word. That would not fit with her saying “He is beside himself”.
Of similar interest however is the fact that John the Baptist who earlier had clearly proclaimed “Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world” seems somewhat less convinced as he sits in jail awaiting execution. John sent some of his disciples to Jesus as had them ask in essence, “Are you sure that you are the Messiah?” (Luke 7:19). When things do not turn out as we expect them to, sometimes it shakes our beliefs to the core – look at what Peter did after the arrest.
Add to this her conduct at the foot of the cross – “Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother” (John 19:25). No doubt her mind and heart was full of the pain that had be prophesied by Simeon over 30 years ago. While we cannot make a strong argument from silence, all indications are that stood there in SILENCE. A gentle quiet submissive spirit seems to have been her attitude in her every appearance on the pages of the Word. That would not fit with her saying “He is beside himself”.
Of similar interest however is the fact that John the Baptist who earlier had clearly proclaimed “Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world” seems somewhat less convinced as he sits in jail awaiting execution. John sent some of his disciples to Jesus as had them ask in essence, “Are you sure that you are the Messiah?” (Luke 7:19). When things do not turn out as we expect them to, sometimes it shakes our beliefs to the core – look at what Peter did after the arrest.
Jon-Marc said:
The Greek oi par autou literally means "the ones beside Him" or "those with Him". It is far to general to conclude that they were family.
Though I disagree with his conclusion in this specific regard, comments of prominent Greek Scholar A.T. Robertson are worthy of note:
I am a student, by no means a scholar, but nonetheless -- I disagree with Dr. Robertson. Perhaps if I read his complete work on Mary I would feel differently.
BTW, verse 31 is the reason for my disagreement wiht ATR. The words erchontai oun are really pretty clear, "then came the brothers and the mother of Him". Not sure why ATR does not address this at all in his Word Pictures at verse 31. He could have felt that his reference in verse 21 was sufficient or there could always be a textual variation of which I am unaware (I do not have my UBS3 in front of me).
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Steven2006
New Member
Jon-Marc said:
I mostly use the NASB, KJV, and NKJV, and I didn't get the impression of family with any of those. I think this is a good example why it is wise to use more than one translation with bible study.
I have used this analogy before, so I am just going to quote myself why I think using everything Goad has made available to us for study is wise and beneficial.
In my opinion, when I study the Bible, I want to be able to try and best understand what God intended when He used the Holy Spirit to breath life into the originals. So I appreciate the value that translator notes and for that matter more than one translation gives me towards that end. It is like looking at a statue of a person. Being able to walk around all sides of him and get a better appreciation of what that person really looked like. Versus looking at just a painted portrait of that same person.
.
Jon-Marc said:
(ALT) And the [ones] from His side [fig., His relatives] having heard, they went out to take hold of Him, for they said that He was out of His mind.
(ASV) And when his friends heard it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
(BBE) And when his friends had news of it, they went out to get him, saying, He is off his head.
(CEV) When Jesus' family heard what he was doing, they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control.
(Darby) And his relatives having heard of it went out to lay hold on him, for they said, He is out of his mind.
(DRB) And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.
(EMTV) But when His relatives heard, they came out to seize Him, for they were saying, "He has lost His mind."
(ESV) And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, "He is out of his mind."
(GB) And when his kinsfolkes heard of it, they went out to laie hold on him: for they sayde that he was beside himselfe.
(GNB) When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
(GNT) καὶ? ̓?ού?αντεςοἱ? αρ? αὐ?ου? ἐ?η?λθονκρατη?σαιαὐ?ό?? ἔ?εγονγὰ? ὅ?ιἐ?έ?τη.
(GNT+) και2532 CONJ ακουσαντες191 V-AAP-NPM οι3588 T-NPM παρ3844 PREP αυτου846 P-GSM εξηλθον1831 V-2AAI-3P κρατησαι2902 V-AAN αυτον846 P-ASM ελεγον3004 V-IAI-3P γαρ1063 CONJ οτι3754 CONJ εξεστη1839 V-2AAI-3S
Jon-Marc said:
(GNT-TR) καιακουσαντεςοιπαραυτουεξηλθονκρατησαιαυτονελεγονγαροτιεξεστη
(GNT-TR+) και2532 ακουσαντες191 οι3588 παρ3844 αυτου846 εξηλθον1831 κρατησαι2902 αυτον846 ελεγον3004 γαρ1063 οτι3754 εξεστη1839
(GNT-V) καιακουσαντεςοιπαραυτουεξηλθονκρατησαιαυτονελεγονγαροτιεξεστη
(GW) When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
(ISV) When his family heard about it, they went to restrain him. For they kept saying, "He's out of his mind!"
(KJV+) AndG2532 when his friendsG3844 G846 heardG191of it, they went outG1831 to lay hold onG2902 him:G846 forG1063 they said,G3004 He is beside himself.G1839
(KJV-1611) And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him, for they said, He is beside himselfe.
(KJVA) And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
(LITV) And hearing, those with Him went out to take hold of Him; for they said, He is out of wits.
(MKJV) And hearing, those with Him went out to take hold of Him; for they said, He is insane.
(MSG) His friends heard what was going on and went to rescue him, by force if necessary. They suspected he was getting carried away with himself.
(NASB) When His own people heard ofthis, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses."
(NRSV) When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him, for people were saying, "He has gone out of his mind."
(NRSVA) When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him, for people were saying, "He has gone out of his mind."
(WEB) When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "He is insane."
(Webster) And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
(YLT) and his friends having heard, went forth to lay hold on him, for they said that he was beside himself,
And I usually like the ESV. They really missed it here... IMHO
Mary was told by an angel before Jesus' birth who He would be. Although she was probably amazed that she would be chosen to bring the Son of God into the world, I don't think she ever thought He was "beside Himself". Some of the family might have thought that, but I don't believe Mary did.