Did Paul know it all when he started his ministry?

[Claudia_T]

Hi Claudia_T,

We are saved by grace through faith. Not by our willingness or ability to know or do anything.

We can't ascent to salvation anymore than we can establish our salvation through works.

You are really coming across as some kind of apologist and don't appear to seriously take anything which we are saying to you for reflection.

Is this the case?

Who said anything about salvation to begin with? I thought this was about how to know God's will? The thread is about apparent contradictions in the Scriptures. All Im saying is that if we are truly wanting to come to a knowledge of the truth the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth, but if we want to sin and dont want to do God's will then God will allow us to be deceived. its just that simple.

Try this one on for size... just sit there and read it about 3 times, what does it say to you?

2Thes:2:
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

That is simply telling you that IF you love unrighteousness (sin) and you dont love the truth, God is going to allow you to be deceived. to believe a lie.

I just believe Jesus when He says that if we are willing to know the truth we will know it.

I dont even know what an apologist is.

when the Bible says something I just believe it.

what is so difficult about just believing this statement?

Jn:7:17: If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

and what about this one?

Jn:3:20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.


Its just that simple, if we are secretly in our hearts wanting to do evil and not wanting to do God's will then we will not know the truth. Because we really dont want to know it. We will either be deceived and/or deceive ourselves. Because we like sin.

whats so hard to understand about that? Why do you think Jesus even said those things?

Thats why I think so many Christians get way off track, because they cant seem to simply take the Word of God as it reads.

Claudia

 

[xdisciplex]

But I also prayed before reading the bible and asked for understanding but I still didn't understand it. Should this not somehow concern me? Or is this simply normal and other christians also don't understand the bible but they simply accept it and don't freak out like me?

 

[Amy.G]

But I also prayed before reading the bible and asked for understanding but I still didn't understand it. Should this not somehow concern me? Or is this simply normal and other christians also don't understand the bible but they simply accept it and don't freak out like me?

Well, sometimes we do have to just accept it and not freak out. I mentioned to you in another post that maybe you should read a different translation. The KJV is hard to understand for me because it's written in archaic english that we don't speak anymore. Try the NIV or NKJV. Or even the NLT.
If you have truly accepted Jesus as your savior then you received the Holy Spirit and He is there to teach you. If you have a problem with a particular verse, post it and we'll help you understand it. You also need to get into a good Bible believing church and be discipled. I know you're tired of hearing that, but it's the truth. God did not intend for us to go it alone.

 

[xdisciplex]

How does it feel when the holy spirit teaches yo? How do you know it?
What if you never understand anything? Does this mean that you don't have the holy spirit? Does this mean that if somebody doesn't understand the bible this shows that he can't be saved?

 

[swaimj]

Here is what Paul says of his teaching in Galations chapter 1:11-12

Now I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. For I did not receive it or learn it from any human source; instead I received it by a revelation of Jesus Christ

If you check the context, it reveals that he is speaking of revelation that he received after his conversion and prior to the beginning of his ministry. This makes it clear that Paul's writings are directly from Jesus Christ himself.

 

[xdisciplex]

Does the bible tell us how long Paul was taught by Jesus? Did Jesus tell him everything he needed to know before he started?

 

[swaimj]

Paul give the time sequence in Galations 1.

 

[bound]

Who said anything about salvation to begin with? I thought this was about how to know God's will? The thread is about apparent contradictions in the Scriptures. All Im saying is that if we are truly wanting to come to a knowledge of the truth the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth, but if we want to sin and dont want to do God's will then God will allow us to be deceived. its just that simple.

Hi Claudia_T,

Well, I can agree with you on this but I also believe that we can place our trust in God to complete the work He starts in us. We may not know everything but if we trust Him, He will not let us down.

Try this one on for size... just sit there and read it about 3 times, what does it say to you?

2Thes:2:
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

That is simply telling you that IF you love unrighteousness (sin) and you dont love the truth, God is going to allow you to be deceived. to believe a lie.

My guess we have a very different definition of exactly what constitutes 'sin'.

You come across very much like a muslim or a jew desiring to follow 'the Law'. As I have been taught, Christianity is a Covenant of Promise not Bondage. We are free from Bondage through the Holy Spirit. Your sense of 'sin' seems very tied to Mosaic Law like the Pharisees. This kind of similarity kinda freaks me out and it causes me to be really concerned that you and other Adventists are Judaizers.

Of course, I don't really know that much about Adventists but this is just my impression. I could be wrong but the similarities are very chilling.

I just believe Jesus when He says that if we are willing to know the truth we will know it.

I believe knowing the Truth is Knowing Christ and who he is and what he's done for us. Reaching past this is, to me a bit risky and I try and exercise caution.

when the Bible says something I just believe it.

Well, we have to interpret the Bible by what the Bible says and I believe it helps to know how it has been interpreted down through history. This gives us precident but it shouldn't be elevated to dogma.

what is so difficult about just believing this statement?

Jn:7:17: If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

For one you have to 'assume' what 'will' means and what 'doctrine' is. This verse doesn't explain what this two things are so you have to exercise 'conjecture' to determine exactly what this passage means. Context is also very improtant as well as not interpreting something so that it 'contradicts' over passages in the Bible.

and what about this one?

Jn:3:20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

John often uses very figurative language which is challenging to interpret without understanding 'who he was writing to' and 'what the other Biblical Authors also say about similar topics.

I can give you my understanding of these two verses if you wish?

Its just that simple, if we are secretly in our hearts wanting to do evil and not wanting to do God's will then we will not know the truth. Because we really dont want to know it. We will either be deceived and/or deceive ourselves. Because we like sin.

Well you just described everyone in the Old and New Testament 'except Jesus Christ' are you trying to say that you are any different? I seriously don't think so.

whats so hard to understand about that? Why do you think Jesus even said those things?

To encourage us to be better. If fact he wants us to be perfect just as our Father in Heaven is perfect but we aren't perfect are we...

I'm not trying to play this down or brush it to the side but avoiding eating pork and going to Church on Saturday doesn't make you perfect either. I believe that love can make us perfect because God is Love.

As Christians we are not trying to obey God... we are trying to 'be like God' through our example Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Apostles.

Thats why I think so many Christians get way off track, because they cant seem to simply take the Word of God as it reads.

Well, I believe you actually being really dishonest because you are creating a mountain of contradictions with the teachings of Jesus and the Apostle Paul in order to have your Judaized Works-based Salvation.

I don't mean that to insult you but you have avoided every single verse of scripture which challenges your exegesis. That is dishonest and it is deceptive.

May God bring you grace and peace. Amen.

 

[Claudia_T]

Hi Claudia_T,

Well, I can agree with you on this but I also believe that we can place our trust in God to complete the work He starts in us. We may not know everything but if we trust Him, He will not let us down.

Try this one on for size... just sit there and read it about 3 times, what does it say to you?



My guess we have a very different definition of exactly what constitutes 'sin'.

You come across very much like a muslim or a jew desiring to follow 'the Law'. As I have been taught, Christianity is a Covenant of Promise not Bondage. We are free from Bondage through the Holy Spirit. Your sense of 'sin' seems very tied to Mosaic Law like the Pharisees. This kind of similarity kinda freaks me out and it causes me to be really concerned that you and other Adventists are Judaizers.

Of course, I don't really know that much about Adventists but this is just my impression. I could be wrong but the similarities are very chilling.



I believe knowing the Truth is Knowing Christ and who he is and what he's done for us. Reaching past this is, to me a bit risky and I try and exercise caution.



Well, we have to interpret the Bible by what the Bible says and I believe it helps to know how it has been interpreted down through history. This gives us precident but it shouldn't be elevated to dogma.



For one you have to 'assume' what 'will' means and what 'doctrine' is. This verse doesn't explain what this two things are so you have to exercise 'conjecture' to determine exactly what this passage means. Context is also very improtant as well as not interpreting something so that it 'contradicts' over passages in the Bible.



John often uses very figurative language which is challenging to interpret without understanding 'who he was writing to' and 'what the other Biblical Authors also say about similar topics.

I can give you my understanding of these two verses if you wish?



Well you just described everyone in the Old and New Testament 'except Jesus Christ' are you trying to say that you are any different? I seriously don't think so.



To encourage us to be better. If fact he wants us to be perfect just as our Father in Heaven is perfect but we aren't perfect are we...

I'm not trying to play this down or brush it to the side but avoiding eating pork and going to Church on Saturday doesn't make you perfect either. I believe that love can make us perfect because God is Love.

As Christians we are not trying to obey God... we are trying to 'be like God' through our example Jesus Christ and the teachings of the Apostles.



Well, I believe you actually being really dishonest because you are creating a mountain of contradictions with the teachings of Jesus and the Apostle Paul in order to have your Judaized Works-based Salvation.

I don't mean that to insult you but you have avoided every single verse of scripture which challenges your exegesis. That is dishonest and it is deceptive.

May God bring you grace and peace. Amen.

I resent you calling me dishonest and deceptive, I havent even read most of the posts on this thread except the opening one and a few others... and here you are saying I am avoiding this and that and I havent a clue what you are even referring to so please do not accuse me of being dishonest and deceptive because I dont appreciate it.


and Im not even going to read the rest of your post because of it. I just saw the end sentencce of it and thats enough for me.

 

[Claudia_T]

and now that I DID read over what you said, it seems ridiculous to me and doesnt even really have anything to do with the two simple verses I was talking about... geezzzz

I really do not see how you could get so much stuff to disagree with just out of what I said LOL!

 

[swaimj]

xdesciplex said

But I also prayed before reading the bible and asked for understanding but I still didn't understand it.

Who were you praying to?

 

[J. Jump]

JJ, I know you have a hard time agreeing with me on ANYTHING, but the Bible is God's word to ALL of us.

If you are saying to ALL of us Christians/believers then I would agree. Very few parts of Scripture are for the unsaved.

Yes, there are difficult passages, but anyone can learn how to live a Godly life and enjoy the peace of Christ by reading the Bible without ever understanding the most difficult parts.

I agree with that, but that's not what you originally said.

And the truth is that none of us will EVER understand everything this side of heaven.

I agree with this as well. See there are a number of things that we agree on. Don't know why you choose to constantly focus on what we don't agree on?

XDX needs the Holy Spirit to help him understand.

Absolutely. Wow do you feel the love

The Bible can be complicated if that's all you see, but God intended it be simple enough that even a little child can understand, but the natural man just ain't gonna get it.

Now I don't agree with this. God didn't intend the entire Bible to be simple enough that even a little child can understand. If that was the case there would be no need for maturity. He intended for parts of it to be simple, but He intended a great deal of it for the Spiritually mature.