Did paul refer to Spiritual isreal as being the Church, or apply towards saved Jews?

[Yeshua1]

As why would he use both Isreal and the Church still as sepertae items, and seemed to imply that spiritual jewish heirs of Abraham meant the remnant jews who were to get saved ?

 

[agedman]

In another thread, I pointed to writing by a scholar named Staples. In his work, he shows that the ancients would use (as I do) the term Israel to refer to the social whole of all of that genetic makeup, and Jews to refer to those who are the elect of Israel.

As some (Josephus for example) were contemporaries of Paul and of the similar background in Jewishness, it follows that when Paul used the term Israel ("All Israel will be saved") that it was total inclusive, and not just applicable to the Judean remnant.

Now, I realize that some on the BB will argue the point, but the work by Staples seems to be well thought through, and besides, with the exception of a few points, he agrees with me.

 

[SeekingTruth]

In another thread, I pointed to writing by a scholar named Staples. In his work, he shows that the ancients would use (as I do) the term Israel to refer to the social whole of all of that genetic makeup, and Jews to refer to those who are the elect of Israel.

As some (Josephus for example) were contemporaries of Paul and of the similar background in Jewishness, it follows that when Paul used the term Israel ("All Israel will be saved") that it was total inclusive, and not just applicable to the Judean remnant.

Now, I realize that some on the BB will argue the point, but the work by Staples seems to be well thought through, and besides, with the exception of a few points, he agrees with me.

I have always believed that the Bible was given by the inspiration of God, not the inspiration of Josephus, or was the Spirit of God hindered by the ramblings of a Jewish historian>

 

[OldRegular]

y1

Were all the Apostles, excluding Judas, the initial members of the New Testament Church or were they not? True believers are members of the Church for which Jesus Christ died.

 

[OldRegular]

I have always believed that the Bible was given by the inspiration of God, not the inspiration of Josephus, or was the Spirit of God hindered by the ramblings of a Jewish historian>

Well said O' TruthSeeker.

Interesting to see someone on this forum seeking to learn instead of imposing their views on others as some of us try to do.