Did the Crusades serve any purpose?

The Crusades were an action rising up out of popular demand to rescue lands the muslims had taken from the Christians, slaughtering their population and cutting of pilgrim routes to the Holy Land where our Lord Jesus Christ suffered his passion.

They were as unjustified as the USA would be were we to go to war with Russia after they invaded and took Alaska [back], and slaughered most of our citizens there...i.e., I don't think that they were unjustified.

Now the later Crusades seemed to get off track - but that's the fault of the individuals, not the merit of the movement itself.

 

I believe it was "in hoc signe vinces" or "in this sign, conquer". Vini Vidi Vici was Caesar's famous line.

I always looked at Constantine like this:

God gave to Israel "cities you did not build; and you live in them. and eat from vineyards and
olive groves that you. did not plant.” - Josh 24:12-13

That was his old covenant, and under his new covenant, he did the same thing using those in charge as is his way.

He gave Christianity the largest empire the world has ever seen - and they didn't have to raise a finger to do it!

 

Yes, rsr, but you would admit that God can use all of these situations to accomplish his providence. In the world of Constantine, I see God's providence, even though I would never call Constantine a christian.

 

Would you also choose not to take a posistion on David Koresh?

 

Your right, rsr. I was just wondering where you were comming from by saying you would not take a posistion on Constantine. Just pure curiosity, thats all.

 

his conversion is between himself and God.

 

That is a nice touchy feely way of looking at it NarnianSoldier. But if you are ever in a situation in which the government is persecuting christians and sending infiltrators into the churches, you wont be so touch feely about the question, and besides, the Bible say for us to test the spirits don't you think we should also test would be Christians.

 

In those days the oldest son inhereted the land. The second son traditionally became a priest and the third joined the army.

The purpose of the CRusades was to kill off excess European males and a few European Jews.

 

I'm stepping into this discussion late in the game (out of town), but I need to say a bit here. I published a major paper on the origin of the Crusades---specifically, the First Crusade---and the purpose was not to deplete the male populace of Europe. Two major issues were behind the Crusades.

The (Greek) Orthodox Church in the East had split from the (Latin) Catholic Church in 1054. Muslim armies were threatening Constantinople, headquarters of the Orthodox Churches. They had already conquered Antioch and Nicaea, and were on the doorstep of Constantinople. The emperor asked Pope Urban II to help save his city, its people, and their priceless treasures, manuscripts, and relics. This might be a chance to heal the gap, and Constantinople was worth protecting anyway.

That was the first reason. The second issue was that pilgrimages to the Holy Land were no longer safe, even for bishops and archbishops in very large groups (e.g., 7000 at once). For the past 20 years Seljuk Turks had robbed and committed atrocities upon pilgrims, who had been treated well by previous Muslim rulers. The goal of the Crusades was to save Constantinople from the Seljuk armies threatening it and to wrest the holy land from the Seljuk Muslims.

Unfortunately, things went sour and the armies who participated in the crusades were brutal and ignorant. Most didn't know the difference between a Muslim, a Jew, and an Orthodox Christian. The crusaders expected the waters to part where they went, the walls of Jerusalem to fall down, and angels to fight with them from heaven; very apocalyptic stuff. Massacres of Jews occurred during the Crusades, but Crusaders were not sent out to kill Jews; they were sent out to take Constantinople, the Holy Land, and the pilgrimage routes out of Muslim control.

If you'd like to read the "long version" of my article on the Crusades, click here.

--
Eric Pement

 

"The (Greek) Orthodox Church in the East had split from the (Latin) Catholic Church in 1054. Muslim armies were threatening Constantinople, headquarters of the Orthodox Churches. They had already conquered Antioch and Nicaea, and were on the doorstep of Constantinople. The emperor asked Pope Urban II to help save his city, its people, and their priceless treasures, manuscripts, and relics. This might be a chance to heal the gap, and Constantinople was worth protecting anyway."------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am very proud of myself, since I made this point very early in the thread.

 

rsr,

At what point in time, FTR?

'Sorry for the delayed response, it's been a while since I looked back in the History forum. In answer to your question, the only time in which I live, right now. As I said, the ultimate result.

 

Oops, double post, I guess I made it past the floodgate.

 

Eric Pement makes great points most people don't realize how close Muslims came to overrunning Europe,

Also of note is that those counties that the muslims occupied and the crusaders wanted to liberate were formerly christian countries taken by the muslim swords.

 

double posting

 

BAC, you are correct.

 

The Pope (actually Genoa?) used the opportunity to trash Constantanople because it was an economic rival. follow the money.