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Did the RCC ever change Trent as pegards to Protestants NOT getting saved?
- Thread starter DaChaser1
- Start date
Yes, but the hierarchy won't admit it to you. See, for example, Lumen Gentium, art 15 and the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, one of the co-authors of which was some guy called Joseph Ratzinger (wonder what happened to him?), in which it was effectively admitted by the Catholic Church that - shock horror! - Luther might have had a point after all...
They did NOT admit though that one is fully justified by grace of God alone, received by faith, independent of ANY sacramental means of Grace!
The RCC has interesting view here on this!
Baptisism cleans us from original Sin, regenerates one, yet not able to be justified here until 'co operated and assisted God by the sacraments!
Catholic Catechism
http://www.scborromeo.org
Who belongs to the Catholic Church?
836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320
837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Ort
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
855 The Church's mission stimulates efforts towards Christian unity. Indeed, "divisions among Christians prevent the Church from realizing in practice the fullness of catholicity proper to her in those of her sons who, though joined to her by Baptism, are yet separated from full communion with her. Furthermore, the Church herself finds it more difficult to express in actual life her full catholicity in all its aspects."
http://www.scborromeo.org
Who belongs to the Catholic Church?
836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320
837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321
838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Ort
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338
855 The Church's mission stimulates efforts towards Christian unity. Indeed, "divisions among Christians prevent the Church from realizing in practice the fullness of catholicity proper to her in those of her sons who, though joined to her by Baptism, are yet separated from full communion with her. Furthermore, the Church herself finds it more difficult to express in actual life her full catholicity in all its aspects."
The above is from Lumen Gentium and has been incorporated into the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
You guys are funny. On one hand you accuse catholics of being inclusive of all religions and next you accuse catholics of being elitist.
I'm just going to restate the OP. Tell me if you think this should be considered a serious question.
Did the RCC ever change Trent as pegards to Protestants NOT getting saved?
Did the RCC ever change Trent as pegards to Protestants NOT getting saved?
Did the RCC ever change Trent as pegards to Protestants NOT getting saved?
It still doesn't make any sense. Also, I looked for "pegards" in my dictionary. It's not there. Hmmm...
Did the RCC ever change Trent as pegards to Protestants NOT getting saved?
Did the RCC ever change Trent as pegards to Protestants NOT getting saved?
Did the RCC ever change Trent as pegards to Protestants NOT getting saved?
It still doesn't make any sense. Also, I looked for "pegards" in my dictionary. It's not there. Hmmm...
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Trent was not changed it was clarified in Vatican II but it was never changed.
'P' isn't even next to 'R' on my keyboard...
Mine either. In fact, when I learned to type in school, I learned to use my left hand for the "R" but my right hand for the "P."
Ruzzling. Absolutely ruzzling.
What does that mean, in the title "pegards"?
WestminsterMan
New Member
the RCC used to say that other religions could have hope to get saved, as God would honor them based upon their sincere faith in their religions, as they were "ignorant" of true cathic dogma/doctrines...
those who know them now them and still rejected them were cursed/lost...
Has the Church changed that at all?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
NO the Church hasn't changed. What the problem is you are not understand what the Church is actually saying. Why accuse us of opposite ends of the specrtum? We either are all inclusive of all religions are we are eclusive of all religions. You can't accuse us of both! They contradict each other. So which do you accuse us of?
The Real answer is that we are niether. Let us agree that ultimately God decides. However, as for Non Catholics doesn't Paul say some are a law unto themselves? Who are these people and how will they fair? What does Paul say?
If the Church is the Kingdom can someone come into the Kingdom some other way? Doesn't the Lord say only a theif comes in by some other means than the Gate?
Let me further elucidate
Romans says
Note verse 13 the word righteous is mistranslated it is dikaioō or Justifed. And look at it in comparison to those who are a law unto themselves.
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NONE come into the Kingdom except thru the person of jesus, as salvation found in Him alone, NO CHURCH that is upon this earth!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Exactly because Jesus is the Gate. The Church is the Kingdom which Jesus Established. The Kingdom is both temporal and eternal. So people who are a law to themselves must come through Jesus into the Kingdom. Though they may not know him as we do they obey even as romans said let me quote again
the Kingom of God is NOT the RCC, as augustine was wrong to assert that as being 'truth!
it is the reign/rulle of jesus over those saved by the Grace of God, NOT found in any Church on this earth exclusively, as the real church is the Body of Christ on earth, found in many different groups/labels, those who were sinners who became saints once washed and renewed by the blood of the Lamb!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Augustine was correct. It is you who are wrong. Jesus said himself that he came to establish the kingdom. The kingdom is made up of a gathering of those called out or the Church which is his bride eternally.
jesus Brise/Body His Church are all saved by His Grace, NOT the RCC Baptist methodist etc
Individual members of His true church are found attending those buildings/labels, they are NOT his church!
Chrsitians attend ,ethodist cathoilic baptist etc, His true church NONE of that!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Based on scripture and 2000 years of history. Jesus' bride/body is his Church which Ignatius is recorded as calling Catholic in 100 AD. The Church Temporally and eternally is the Kingdom that Jesus established. And Catholics are saved by Grace and a few of the other denominations who obey Jesus Christ will be saved by Grace that Christ gives through his Church. Ie Protestants wouldn't even have faith in Jesus Christ if not for the Catholic Church preserving the faith and the scriptures for 1500 years.