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Did We get The Doctrine Of original Sin From Bible, or Catholic Church?
- Thread starter JesusFan
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Seems to me Paul existed (and wrote his epistles) long before the RCC was created by Constantine.
Original Sin did not come from Paul, he contradicts it.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
If we are born dead in sins, how could Paul say he was ever alive once? And how could he die if he was born dead?
You have to be alive to die.
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The same Paul that said you were once dead in YOUR sins and trespasses in which YOU used to walk?
That was invented by Augustine along with infant baptism and the immaculate conception as they all go together.
...which supported what he said. Sin is the conscious violation of God's law, what Paul touches on in that particular verse.
I just finished explaining that to him here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1725390&postcount=167
Don't forget Total Depravity, it is part of the same package!
And how does the above contradict the doctrine of original sin?
Austine did not invent original sin --that's absurd when the New Testament (considerably pre-dating the Bishop of Hippo) taught it.
Augustine did not teach the immaculate conception of Mary. Document your charges please.
Infant baptism and the immaculate conception of Mary have nothing to do with so-called total depravity. The latter is scriptural --the first two are theological errors.
Amen :thumbs::tongue3:
Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
This has to mean that since everyone dies we are all sinners else infants would not/could not die before they become accountable.
I use the illustration of an apple tree. An apple tree bears no fruit until it is mature.
Yet it is still an apple tree by nature because it has the potential capacity and all the genetic equipment to bear apples which it received from its progenitor.
At very least we are born with the potential to bear the fruit of sin which we received from Adam.
Personally I believe it goes beyond a potential in that sin is an unlearned process, and universal to the human race.
HankD
This link talks about who came up with what, and why they did. http://www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbs03.htm
We die for our sins, not Adam's.
“With the exception of the holy Virgin Mary, in whose case, out of respect for the Lord, I do not wish there to be any further question as far as sin is concerned, since how can we know what great abundance of grace was conferred on her to conquer sin in every way, seeing that she merited to conceive and bear him who certainly had no sin at all?” - St. Augustine
"As regards the mother of God, I will not allow any question whatever of sin." - St. Augustine
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Reply to Jesusfan
I think you are wrong in your definition of original sin. The fall refers to being with God, i.e. in the garden, and then because of God's response to Adam's volitional disobedience, Adam and mankind were separated from God.
Thus everyone born is born "in Adam" which means separated from God, sharing the separated state with all sinners, hence "made sinners."
Another consequence of Adam's sin is that mankind was corrupted. When Adam sinned, both Adam and Eve's eyes were opened, teaching that the corruption is transmitted spiritually, not physically because Eve was not "conceived" after the fall of Adam. In our corrupted state we are predisposed to sin. This "old man" nature, i.e. the sinful nature of the first man Adam after his eyes were opened, is contrasted with Christ's new and uncorrupted nature.
Where the Calvinists adopt the "Popeish" doctrine of God punishing mankind for Adam's sin, as opposed to putting us in a sinful state as a consequence of Adam's sin, is where most part company.
I think you are wrong in your definition of original sin. The fall refers to being with God, i.e. in the garden, and then because of God's response to Adam's volitional disobedience, Adam and mankind were separated from God.
Thus everyone born is born "in Adam" which means separated from God, sharing the separated state with all sinners, hence "made sinners."
Another consequence of Adam's sin is that mankind was corrupted. When Adam sinned, both Adam and Eve's eyes were opened, teaching that the corruption is transmitted spiritually, not physically because Eve was not "conceived" after the fall of Adam. In our corrupted state we are predisposed to sin. This "old man" nature, i.e. the sinful nature of the first man Adam after his eyes were opened, is contrasted with Christ's new and uncorrupted nature.
Where the Calvinists adopt the "Popeish" doctrine of God punishing mankind for Adam's sin, as opposed to putting us in a sinful state as a consequence of Adam's sin, is where most part company.
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