Dietary Laws

[Cathode]

The same applies. Shiva and Kali aren't real. If someone tells you, "This food was offered to Shiva or Kali," you shouldn't eat it because of 1 Cor. 10. Not because the food might harm you - it won't - but you would not want whoever tells you to think that you think that Shiva and Kali worship is OK.
But I tell you what - a whole lot more Christians are killed by Islamists than by Shiva or Kali worshippers.

Trust me mate, you don’t know what you are talking about here.

There is a big difference between kosher compliance and demon diety offerings.

Many early Christian accounts show serious trouble for Christians who partook of pagan sacrifices.

As Paul says, you can not partake of the table of demons.

God punishes it severely, he will have no other gods before Him.

These Ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Norse etc are demon deities, to partake is to worship.

Read the early Christian accounts, God hands people over to them. It angers Him like nothing else.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Just read the Bible, mate. "Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from the outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?" What is it about "all foods" that you don't understand?
Obviously, if you are partaking in a pagan orgy then eating the food is the least of your problems. But if food sacrificed to pagan idols were to be sold in Walmart (I'm sure it isn't!) then if you buy it and take it home and eat it then it will do you no harm so long as you read the ingredients list, and it will not defile you (c.f. 1 Cor. 10:25). You can take that as fact from the Lord Jesus Himself.

 

[Mike B]

In my 67+ years I have traveled extensively throughout 47 of the 50 US states, plus trips to Germany,
Israel, Mexico and Canada.

Can't say I've ever come across a "pagan orgy BBQ"...but if I do, I'll be sure to give it a wide berth.

 

[GentleGospeller]

Salvation is not by works of the law, including what one eats or doesn't eat, per the apostle Paul:

Romans 3:20-28
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:6-8
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Why do people always bring up the "Salvation is not by works" mantra, when that is not the subject under discussion?

 

[GentleGospeller]

What can I say? Just read Mark 7:14ff. Our Lord does not say that murder, idolatry and adultery cannot defile you; He says that eating food cannot defile you. The one is the moral law, the other is dietary law.

I have read it. Did you intend to read its context with me, or no? You have some mistaken notions.

 

[GentleGospeller]

Mark 7:18-19. 'So He said to them, ""Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?" And He said, "What comes out of a man , that defiles him."'
Sitting in an Indian restaurant and eating halal meat cannot harm you, but once I was eating at such a restaurant with a Moslem business associate, and the menu indicated that all the meat was halal so I deemed it right to eat the fish, not for my sake, but for his (1 Cor. 10:25-30).

The translation of Mar. 7:18-19, that you are using, is, to say the least, misleading, and at worst, deceptive. This may be discussed if you would like, but I am asking you if you want to do such a thing.

"Halal" (allowed / permitted) is a Muslim / Islamic regulation as set up by the false god "allah" and his false prophet "Abu al Qasim" (so called 'Muhammad', the 'one to be praised', or the 'praised one'), and is unscriptural, and may even be bypassed by their own regulations / rulings in dire need (and I have those citations). The designations of "Halal", "Haram" (bad / forbidden), "Makrooh" (questionable) are non-scriptural (Bible) terminologies and do not represent, in any way, the Bible's / God's regulations on diet / health or morality. That which is often called "Halal" by Islam is absolutely forbidden to be eaten / drank by the Christian in Bible / Godhead's (JEHOVAH Elohiym's) standards. So, not all that which is designated "Halal" in Islam is allowed for a Christian to eat, and that which is forbidden by scripture (called unclean / abomination) may not ever be eaten, under any circumstances (even to the point of death).

1 Cor. 10:25-30 are not the context of Mar. 7:18-19; and neither is "Halal" in the Islamic system of juris-prudence / theology and practices. I would be glad to go over Mar. 7:18-19 in context with you, if you desire. You are missing several points therein.

 

[GentleGospeller]

No. The Old Covenant had to pass away (it had to be fulfilled, canceled, nailed to the tree) in order for the New Covenant to come.

Also, the Old Covenant was a Covenant between God and a very specific population (Israel) for a very specific time (from the goving through Moses until it's fulfillment in Christ) and a very specific purpose (to "keep" a nation...Israel...until the time the Promise came).

One popular dish among the Apostolic and Early Church was roasted pork with herbs. This, obvioisly, excluded many Jewish Christians.

Covenants are simply agreements between two or more parties. The New / Eternal / Everlasting Covenant includes God's dietary / health laws.

It is amazing to see how many people attempt to change subjects, or shift goalposts in bringing up "covenants", when they themselves never define or identify those covenants in scriptures. What I see often happen, is a subject like diet / health is brought up, and then a 'change' takes place to "covenants" entirely losing focus on the topic to be discussed. Diet is not the only subject for which this occurs.

The real Christians would never eat "roasted pork with herbs", but there are some that called themselves Christians, and did so, and not only brought in sin, but deceived many to following their rebellious (from God's regulations) ways.

 

[Mike B]

Is there anyone here who believes the Levitical dietary laws are still in force?

No, they are not still in force.

Paul and Barnabas were in Antioch, and some men came there from Judea, and
were telling the Gentiles that they also must be circumcised in order to be saved. Paul and
Barnabas had some rather heated discussions with them about this, and it was decided that:

Acts 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them,
they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto
the apostles and elders about this question.

15:6-11 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how
that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the
gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

And then James spoke regarding the Gentiles, and brought groceries into the discussion:

Acts 15:17 -20

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,
saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from
things strangled, and from blood.

Acts 15 22-24

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren:

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia:

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Acts:15 28-29

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Therefore, the only "dietary law" to which we are beholden is to not eat meat from strangled animals, or
the blood of animals, or the meat that has been offered to idols.

In short, Dungeness Crab and pulled pork sandwiches are still on the menu..

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The translation of Mar. 7:18-19, that you are using, is, to say the least, misleading, and at worst, deceptive.

The translation I use almost invariably here is the NKJV.

This may be discussed if you would like, but I am asking you if you want to do such a thing.

This is a discussion forum. I am very happy to discuss the matter with you.

 

[David Lamb]

The same applies. Shiva and Kali aren't real. If someone tells you, "This food was offered to Shiva or Kali," you shouldn't eat it because of 1 Cor. 10. Not because the food might defile you - it won't - but you would not want whoever tells you to think that you think that Shiva and Kali worship is OK.
But I tell you what - a whole lot more Christians are killed by Islamists than by Shiva or Kali worshippers.

I agree. Partaking in food/meals prepared by those who worship false gods is assumed by those worshippers to indicate belief in such gods. That was, as I understand it, the reason Daniel and his three friends declined food from the king of Babylon. Eating it would have implied to the Babylonians that Dan and the others worshipped Babylonian gods.

 

[JonC]

Covenants are simply agreements between two or more parties. The New / Eternal / Everlasting Covenant includes God's dietary / health laws.

It is amazing to see how many people attempt to change subjects, or shift goalposts in bringing up "covenants", when they themselves never define or identify those covenants in scriptures. What I see often happen, is a subject like diet / health is brought up, and then a 'change' takes place to "covenants" entirely losing focus on the topic to be discussed. Diet is not the only subject for which this occurs.

The real Christians would never eat "roasted pork with herbs", but there are some that called themselves Christians, and did so, and not only brought in sin, but deceived many to following their rebellious (from God's regulations) ways.

Yes, that is exactly what covenants are. And the Old Covenant was an agreement between God and Israel during a specific time.

No Christian would insist it is wrong to eat pork because that would be to rejevt God's words. BUT some may say it is wrong for them because of their conscious.

This was one issue in the Apostalic Church. Jewdisers (early heretics) were denounced by Paul for trying to place others under the Old Covenant.

AND some Christians were tempted to return to the Old Covenant (Paul explained if they do they have no hope, that choosing part of the Law -whether dietary or ceremonial - is to put ones self under the whole law and to reject Christ (the New Covenant).