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Differences between Rapture and Second Coming

KUWN

New Member
For those who put the Rapture and the Second Coming at roughly the same time, I offer this list of contrasts between the Rapture and the Second Coming. Each number in one section corresponds to the same number in the other section. This is also a list that supports the Rapture happening before the Tribulation, and the Second Coming happening at the end of the Tribulation.

At the Rapture:
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air
2. All believers are translated into new bodies
3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
8. It affects believers only
9. It is a time of joy
10. it occurs before the day of Wrath
11. No mention of Satan
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him
15. The Tribulation begins

At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. Christ judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. The are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins
 

Oseas3

Well-Known Member
Be sure that since ancient time the ETERNAL punishment had a specific and pre-determined time to begin, I MUST tell it has already begun, the question is that we all MUST know that from now on the punishments against the nations will NEVER END, it will NEVER STOP, but NEVER, it will be for ever and ever. --> (Our Lord JESUS said in His prayer to the Father:

Be prepared or else get ready. -> Jeremiah 25:31
- A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the NATIONS (what kind of controversy or dispute - Will be 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 and 51-55 combined with Revelation 11:15-18 ???), He will plead with all flesh; He will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord.

2Peter 3:7-> But the heavens-
>(the first and second heavens, -> the 3rd will be still established from now on) and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store,reserved unto FIRE against the Day of Judgment -> (this Day arrived, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium), and perdition of ungodly men.

JESUS said: Matthew 24:35 -> Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Jeremiah 25:32->
Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from NATION to NATION, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.

Jeremiah 30:23-24--> 23 Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord goeth forth with fury(Romans 2:6-11, take a look), a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.
24 The fierce anger of the Lord shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart:
in the latter days ye shall consider it. --> Be prepared o else get ready.

Jeremiah 25:33 ->
And the slain of the Lord shall be at that Day (this Day arrived) from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.-->Revelation 19:19-21, take a look.

Malachi 4:1-3

1 For, behold, the Day cometh (this Day arrived) that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the Day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the Day that I shall do this(this Day arrived), saith the Lord of hosts.
Be prepared opr else get ready

John 17:15-17 - this will fulfill LITERALY from now on. Our Lord JESUS said to the Father:


15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the Evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy Word is truth.

May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
AMEN
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Matthew 24-25 is definitive. Jesus comes (2nd coming) AFTER the great tribulation. His angels collect the elect from the earth (consistent with Paul’s statement we rise into the air), then comes the great throne judgment.

There is no pre-trib rapture. There is no re-establishment of national Israel with a Third Temple. There is no 1000 year reign of Christ ON EARTH.

Hope that helps

Peace to you
 

KUWN

New Member
Matthew 24-25 is definitive. Jesus comes (2nd coming) AFTER the great tribulation. His angels collect the elect from the earth (consistent with Paul’s statement we rise into the air), then comes the great throne judgment.

There is no pre-trib rapture. There is no re-establishment of national Israel with a Third Temple. There is no 1000 year reign of Christ ON EARTH.

Hope that helps
Just so you know. We don't have different interpretations of these passages, we have a difference in Interpretation Methods. You are free to give any passage your own interpretation, but I am limited by the literal meaning of the words. For example, following the standards of normal grammar, lexical meaning, historical setting, etc. I am bound to teach that Christ will reign for 1,000 years at the Second coming, not anything less or more.

To anticipate an objection, when Jesus says I am the Door, the phrase is taken in its normal literal sense of what a door is, it is something you enter to another location. Literal interpretation includes idioms also.
 

Oseas3

Well-Known Member
Matthew 24-25 is definitive. Jesus comes (2nd coming) AFTER the great tribulation.
Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. -> Revelation 16:13-14, and mainly verse 15, take a look..
Daniel 12:12 -> Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. ->Yeah, day 1335, the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, Unspeakable day, the day 1.335. Hallelujaaah!!!
His angels collect the elect from the earth (consistent with Paul’s statement we rise into the air)
Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. The air is the third heaven that will be established from now on, higher heaven than the current first two heavens -> Luke 20:35-36 combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-55, and mainly with Philippians 3:20-21 combined with Romans 8:18-21. GET READY => The glory which shall be revealed-->IN US -> sons of GOD <=
, then comes the great throne judgment.
Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. ->Revelation 6:9-11 combined with 19:5-9 and 20:1-4 combined with 12:7-13, take a look.
There is no pre-trib rapture.
Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. ->1Corinthians 15:24-28 and 51-55 combined with Revelation 11:18.
There is no re-establishment of national Israel
Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. To clarify, in the time of Elias there were millions of Jews, but only 7K sons of Israe or our GOD considered sons of Israel, -> the others as a whole were sons of Devil, demonic rebels and idolaters -> 1Reis 20::15. Now, in this current time of the END, time of Apocalipse, there will be only 144K (the remnant-Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-3) considered sons of Israel, the others as a whole are sons of Devil-John 8:44, combined with Matthew 3:7 and 23:31-33, and Revelation 14:18-19-> They will be gathered and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of GOD..
There is no re-establishment of national Israel with a Third Temple.
Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. Feb 10, 2020 - the question was:-> post 4 - Will the Jews build a Third Temple? No.
Will the Jews build a Third Temple? -> pages 1; 2;...8. Strong and terrible discussions full of contradictions
There is no 1000 year reign of Christ ON EARTH.
For now there are two heavens(Ephesians 1:3-10 and so on, combined with 2Peter 3:7-13, take a look) , the third heaven (2Corinthians 12:2-4, take a look) will still be established from now on, a higher heaven-Revelation 4:1. -> What do you say about Matthew 5:5, and Revelation 5:9-14 and Revelation 20:4-6 and 7-10 and so on?
Hope that helps
Amen. Your message helped / helps a lot, bringing to us Truth , but with some restrictions concerning 1000 year reign - > -> Luke 20:35-36 concerning they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, next world -Revelation 11:15, combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-55, and mainly with Philippians 3:20-21 combined with Romans 8:18-21, and mainly also 2Thessalonians 1:7-12, take a look.
Peace to you
To all of us. Amen.

Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Blessing, and Honour, and Glory, and Power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Amen.
 
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canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Just so you know. We don't have different interpretations of these passages, we have a difference in Interpretation Methods. You are free to give any passage your own interpretation, but I am limited by the literal meaning of the words. For example, following the standards of normal grammar, lexical meaning, historical setting, etc. I am bound to teach that Christ will reign for 1,000 years at the Second coming, not anything less or more.

To anticipate an objection, when Jesus says I am the Door, the phrase is taken in its normal literal sense of what a door is, it is something you enter to another location. Literal interpretation includes idioms also.
I’m glad we both agree to base our beliefs on scripture

So, applying your literal interpretation to Revelation, you will clearly understand that the mention of the “1000 year reign” was a reward for those faithful that were martyred during the great tribulation (they will reign “with Christ” for 1000 years”). There is no mention of that reign being on the earth.

Additionally, there are numerous passages that literally state Christ’s reign is in heaven and is eternal.

And again, Matthew 24-25 is definitive. Christ is speaking of His second coming. He clearly states it occurs after the great tribulation.

Following the methods of sound grammar, understanding words in context and the belief Jesus actually knows what He’s talking about… His second coming is after the great tribulation.

Peace to you
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. -> Revelation 16:13-14, and mainly verse 15, take a look..
Daniel 12:12 -> Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. ->Yeah, day 1335, the Ineffable, Wonderful, Indescribable, Unspeakable day, the day 1.335. Hallelujaaah!!!

Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. The air is the third heaven that will be established from now on, higher heaven than the current first two heavens -> Luke 20:35-36 combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-55, and mainly with Philippians 3:20-21 combined with Romans 8:18-21. GET READY => The glory which shall be revealed-->IN US -> sons of GOD <=

Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. ->Revelation 6:9-11 combined with 19:5-9 and 20:1-4 combined with 12:7-13, take a look.

Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. ->1Corinthians 15:24-28 and 51-55 combined with Revelation 11:18.

Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. To clarify, in the time of Elias there were millions of Jews, but only 7K sons of Israe or our GOD considered sons of Israel, -> the others as a whole were sons of Devil, demonic rebels and idolaters -> 1Reis 20::15. Now, in this current time of the END, time of Apocalipse, there will be only 144K (the remnant-Revelation 7:1-8 and 14:1-3) considered sons of Israel, the others as a whole are sons of Devil-John 8:44, combined with Matthew 3:7 and 23:31-33, and Revelation 14:18-19-> They will be gathered and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of GOD..

Perfect, it is exactly how will be and happen literally. Feb 10, 2020 - the question was:-> post 4 - Will the Jews build a Third Temple? No.
Will the Jews build a Third Temple? -> pages 1; 2;...8. Strong and terrible discussions full of contradictions

For now there are two heavens(Ephesians 1:3-10 and so on, combined with 2Peter 3:7-13, take a look) , the third heaven (2Corinthians 12:2-4, take a look) will still be established from now on, a higher heaven-Revelation 4:1. -> What do you say about Matthew 5:5, and Revelation 5:9-14 and Revelation 20:4-6 and 7-10 and so on?

Amen. Your message helped / helps a lot, bringing to us Truth , but with some restrictions concerning 1000 year reign - > -> Luke 20:35-36 concerning they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, next world -Revelation 11:15, combined with 1Corinthians 15:51-55, and mainly with Philippians 3:20-21 combined with Romans 8:18-21, and mainly also 2Thessalonians 1:7-12, take a look.

To all of us. Amen.

Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Blessing, and Honour, and Glory, and Power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. Amen.
Thank you for your kind words. You are far more knowledgeable than I about connecting the OT prophecies to the modern world.

I tend to see much of the prophecy as symbolic, not literal.

The “144000” for instance, I see as symbolic of a number from each tribe of Israel that is too high to count. The Hebrews used the numbers “1000” and “10000” in such a way.

When David returned with King Saul, the people sang Saul had killed 1000’s and David had killed 10000’s. The King wasn’t happy.

Peace to you
 

KUWN

New Member
I’m glad we both agree to base our beliefs on scripture
Don't understand what you mean by that.

So, applying your literal interpretation to Revelation, you will clearly understand that the mention of the “1000 year reign” was a reward for those faithful that were martyred during the great tribulation (they will reign “with Christ” for 1000 years”). There is no mention of that reign being on the earth.
There is only 1 number in the whole book of Revelation that is symbolic. All the rest are literal numbers.
And again, Matthew 24-25 is definitive. Christ is speaking of His second coming. He clearly states it occurs after the great tribulation.
True.
 

Ben1445

Active Member
Thank you for your kind words. You are far more knowledgeable than I about connecting the OT prophecies to the modern world.

I tend to see much of the prophecy as symbolic, not literal.

The “144000” for instance, I see as symbolic of a number from each tribe of Israel that is too high to count. The Hebrews used the numbers “1000” and “10000” in such a way.

When David returned with King Saul, the people sang Saul had killed 1000’s and David had killed 10000’s. The King wasn’t happy.

Peace to you
Mathematically, when David was told that he was being asked to avenge Saul of his enemies for the sake of being the king’s son in law, He went out with the requirement of one hundred and came back with two hundred.
The Israelites and Philistines were constantly at war because they were often bothering Israel. There is also that there was an appointed time for war.
2 Samuel 11:1
And it came to pass, after the year was expired, at the time when kings go forth to battle,…

Tens of thousands is at a minimum 20,000. If David went out in one trip and took care of 1% of 20,000 for the right to marry the king’s daughter, I don’t see any exaggeration here.
If he were to have killed 25 per day, resting on the Sabbath and taking 4 months of the year for military campaigns, he would be at 20,000 in just over eight years.
I think 25 per day is too conservative myself.

I don’t see any real exaggeration in that praise given to David.
The exaggeration could actually be in not crediting Saul with enough of his due.

1 Samuel 18:8
And Saul was very wroth, and the saying displeased him; and he said, They have ascribed unto David ten thousands, and to me they have ascribed but thousands: and what can he have more but the kingdom?

1 Samuel 14:47
So Saul took the kingdom over Israel, and fought against all his enemies on every side, against Moab, and against the children of Ammon, and against Edom, and against the kings of Zobah, and against the Philistines: and whithersoever he turned himself, he vexed them.
144,000
To hard for you to count and keep track of? Maybe. To hard for God to give an accurate count? I don’t think so.

1 Kings 19:18
Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

I don’t think God has difficulty keeping track of numbers in His mind.
I believe it is harder to accept Scripture as being accurate while trying to explain why it doesn’t mean what it says, than it is to just believe God knows what He is talking about.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"I am limited by the literal meaning of the words. For example, following the standards of normal grammar, lexical meaning, historical setting, etc. I am bound to teach that Christ will reign for 1,000 years at the Second coming, not anything less or more."

Thanks, KUWN, it is important that we use sound rules of interpretation to arrive at the most probable understanding of scripture.

End Times is not "my thing" but I accept that Jesus coming in the air, may not be the same event as when He puts His foot down of solid ground. And of course, I accept that Jesus will reign for 1000 years on earth.

I have only one very small nit pick with one of your points in the OP, #2.

I have no idea what "translated" means other than "will be changed." Some translators like "exchanged" (as in from something corruptible to something incorruptible) or transformed (as the action is performed on believers by God.)
 

Oseas3

Well-Known Member
Thank you for your kind words. You are far more knowledgeable than I about connecting the OT prophecies to the modern world.

I tend to see much of the prophecy as symbolic, not literal.

The “144000” for instance, I see as symbolic of a number from each tribe of Israel that is too high to count. The Hebrews used the numbers “1000” and “10000” in such a way.

When David returned with King Saul, the people sang Saul had killed 1000’s and David had killed 10000’s. The King wasn’t happy.

Peace to you
When I replied your prior post, for me the most important was to confirm all things you said with Truth, because you wrote exactly what will happen and how will happen, according to the Scriptures, the Truth is only only one, then the language of all remains the same, it doesn't never change, of course-John 17:20-24.

But concerning millennial Kingdom of GOD-Luke 20:35-36 and 1Corinthians 15:24-28&51-55 combined with Revelation 11:15-18, what you wrote in your prior post is far of the real happenings, in fact it does not translate this wonderful event with the Truth concerning the place of GOD's Kingdom, in fact it will be similar the ancient Paradise that will be restituted or restaured as was prophesied-> Acts 3:18-21.

By the way, what is heaven? In my view the biblical expression "heaven" has nothing to do with the physical space of the Universe, called by men, sky, but has with a celestial environment created by the Most High GOD here on earth (Isaiah 51:16) to put His people inside it.
As it is written in Philippians 3:20, our conversation is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ. Our conversation is in heaven, but in what heaven or heavenly place in Christ, as Ephesians 1:3-10 reveal?? The first and second heavens will be burned for ever, the third will be established-Isaiah 51:16 combined with Luke 20:35-35, among many biblical references..

Furthermore, GOD created the Universe, but He is sitting on the circle of the earth.-> Isaiah 40:21-22-> 21-
Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain(Isaiah 51:16), and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in.

1Timothy 1:17- Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise GOD, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Peace to you
 

37818

Well-Known Member
The second coming of Christ is called the second appearing.

Hebrews 9:28, So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
 

KUWN

New Member
The second coming of Christ is called the second appearing.

Hebrews 9:28, So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Bear in mind that when Christ comes at the Rapture, he does not "appear" to the world. Hence your statement is correct.

Chronologically speaking you have:

1 First Appearing (Predicted in OT)

(Rapture) (Not predicted in OT)

2 Second Appearing (Predicted in OT)
 

Oseas3

Well-Known Member
The second coming of Christ is called the second appearing.

Hebrews 9:28, So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Perfect, perfect. It is exactly how will be the wonderful and ineffable second coming of JESUS, in fact He will appear among us here, something like to the appearance of our Lord JESUS Christ in the village called Emmaus, it was very very wonderful-Luke 24:13-49.

K
eep this commandment (teaching) until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. Which in His times GOD shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords according to the Timothy 6:14-16. Amen.

1John 2:28 ->And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when JESUS shall appear(among us), we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. Amen.

Revelation 1:5-8

To the churches which are around the whole world :
Grace be unto you, and peace, from Him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before His throne; -> Revelation 5:6 combined with 4:5 and 11, take a look-

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto GOD and His Father; to Him be Glory and Dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

7 Behold, He cometh with clouds-> (Exodus 20:9-20); and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen.

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive Glory and Honour and Power: for thou hast created all things, and for Thy pleasure they are and were created.
AMEN.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Bear in mind that when Christ comes at the Rapture, he does not "appear" to the world. Hence your statement is correct.

Chronologically speaking you have:

1 First Appearing (Predicted in OT)

(Rapture) (Not predicted in OT)

2 Second Appearing (Predicted in OT)

He does appear.

Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: . . .

Titus 2:13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
 
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Oseas3

Well-Known Member

GET READY => The glory which shall be revealed-->IN US -> sons of GOD <=​

====================The glory which shall be revealed-->in us==================

Romans 8:18-21:
18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of GOD.-->John 1:12.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same IN HOPE,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of GOD.

 

KUWN

New Member
He does appear.

Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: . . .

Titus 2:13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Rev 20.6 and Titus 2.13 are not references to the Rapture.
 

KUWN

New Member
He does appear.

Revelation 20:6, Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: . . .

Titus 2:13, Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.
Maybe this will help you see what I am talking about. Try to reconcile this chart. It is self-explanatory.

At the Rapture:
1. Christ comes FOR His own in the air
2. All believers are translated into new bodies
3. Christians are taken to the Father's House
4. There is no judgment on the earth
5. The Church will be in Heaven
6. It is an imminent occurrence
7. There are no signs preceding it
8. It affects believers only
9. It is a time of joy
10. it occurs before the day of Wrath
11. No mention of Satan
12. The Judgment Seat of Christ happens next
13. There is the marriage of the Lamb
14. Only Christ's own will see him
15. The Tribulation begins

At the Second Coming:
1. Christ comes WITH his own
2. No Translation of bodies
3. resurrected saints remain on earth
4. Christ judges the inhabitants of the earth
5. Christ sets up his kingdom on earth
6. It can not occur until the seven-year Trib period
7. The are numerous signs preceding it
8. It affects all humanity
9. It is a time of mourning
10. It occurs after the Tribulation
11. Satan is bound in abyss 1,000 years
12. No judgment seat of Christ
13. His bride descends with him to earth
14. Every eye will see him
15. The millennial reign of Christ begins
 
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