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Differences?
- Thread starter Amy.G
- Start date
I would hope that many here would not be persuaded that these lines of thinking are faultless. Because some people cannot understand predestination and election, they end up accusing God of abandoning the wicked to eternal punishment with never having provided them any opportunity of redemption.
thomas15
Well-Known Member
Do we need popcorn?
Probably a good idea!
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Amy, while there are various views among those who hold to 'reformed' theology I believe most would agree a common belief in soteriology (doctrine of salvation) as being 'Calvinistic,' or 'Augustinian.' For example, there are Presbys, Baptists and Lutherans who all would consider themselves 'reformed' due to their common view of salvation.
The term "Doctrines of Grace" simply refers to doctrines which define and explain God's grace, but this phrase has been made popular by Calvinistic scholars and thus is almost always used in reference to Calvinistic teachings (TULIP etc). But, technically all of us, even non-Calvinistic believers, believe doctrines of grace, just as we believe in a doctrine of election and a doctrine of predestination. It is just different from the Calvinistic doctrine.
I hope that helps.
The term "Doctrines of Grace" simply refers to doctrines which define and explain God's grace, but this phrase has been made popular by Calvinistic scholars and thus is almost always used in reference to Calvinistic teachings (TULIP etc). But, technically all of us, even non-Calvinistic believers, believe doctrines of grace, just as we believe in a doctrine of election and a doctrine of predestination. It is just different from the Calvinistic doctrine.
I hope that helps.
OK!
Many baptist would hold that Sotierology ONLY would be based upon the DoG, as we would see that as the model explaining best in just how and why God works as he does to save us!
So those like me would say that we are calivinist JUST as regards to the doctrine of salvation...
reformed see it as being ALL aspects of calvinistic theology as one being a real calvinist...
They see it that one would have DoG, and be Covenant theology, have views as regarding baptism, second coming, church/isreal, church govt etc as calviinism teaches all of that...
reformed baptists have believers baptism, presby infants...
For example, I hold to the DoG for salvation, but hold to dispy for second coming, also to spiritual gifts still operating, BOTH of those views not accepted as calvinistic by reformed christians!
This is not a Cal vs. Arm thread. Thank you.
Sorry, I misunderstood the OP.
Skan & DaChaser have given good explainations. Generally if someone refers to themselves this way, they are describing a generally calvinistic view of things like depravity, election, irresistable grace, etc (TULIP).
If you see a "Reformed Baptist Church" on the side of the road, they are calvinists, and want everyone to know it.
Would also add that reformed christians tend to see the law/Grace as in continuity even under the New Covenant, that one still bound to be in obedience to the law, while non reformed see it more in a brand new covenant, that one lives by Grace and faith, that the HS Himself empowers us to live as we should!
So checking on just HOW they view the relationship between the Christian and the Law will determine IF they are reformed or not!
Amy, we probably have our own spin on it but to really understand it from its core, may I suggest reading the book (you can get it in paperback) "The Doctrines of Grace" by James Montgomery Boice. He was a wonderful scholar & upon realizing he was dieing of cancer, made it his last remaining initiative to explain the Doctrines of Grace. Very insightful book & it goes right to the core of your questions. You might even want to Google his bio....the world needs allot more of his ilk. :smilewinkgrin:
NOW if we can only get someone to explain what Arms and Non cals agree/disagree on...
Amy, I believe the scriptures to teach that we are eternally saved by God's grace (free gift) alone without the works of man. Most all peole will tell you that they believe in salvation by grace but if you talk to them about the scriptures for very long they will add, "But' you have to do such and such.
convicted1
Guest
However, the scriptures state we are saved by Grace through faith. W/O faith, Grace doesn't occur.
Now to the OP. Apparently amongst the reformed Brethern, you have differing views. Some are 5 pointers, some 4 pointers, etc. Some of the reformed camp believe that God can save outside the preaching of the Gospel(PB's). So, there are subdivisions in the reformed camp, much like the differing views amongst the non-reformed camp.
preacher4truth
Active Member
convicted1
Guest
Rather, without Grace, faith doesn't occur.
Correct. you stated it waaay better than I did. What I meant to show Forest was that Grace works through faith. They work together, IOW.
Better tread lightly Brother. I am listening to "Real American", Hulk Hogan's theme song from the WWF. You mess with me, and I'll do a "Hulkaseizure" and give you the boot and legdrop, and 1-2-3 and start posing over your crumpled body, Brother. Whatya gonna do when I run wiild on you!! :laugh:
Eph 2:8, the "through faith" is "through Christ's faith" Gal 2:16.Our faith can bring about deliverances here in this world but it is never the cause of our eternal salvation. Our faith can give us access to the knowledge that we are justified by Christ's faith. Rom 5:2.
convicted1
Guest
But you stated in an earlier post that we are saved by Grace alone. Remember, it's Grace through. Grace works through faith, which both come from God. Its not Grace alone, but rather, Grace through faith. No faith=no Grace.
AmyG
Some would say that a baptist cannot be reformed but they are mistaken.
This claim would be by Christian reformed and Some Presbyterian churches who think they have it all figured out.
their confessions are very good. We differ on the church, and baptism.
http://www.rbclouisville.com/information/Reformed Baptist.pdf
http://emmanuelreformedbaptist.org/?page_id=128
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?catid=17
Some would say that a baptist cannot be reformed but they are mistaken.
This claim would be by Christian reformed and Some Presbyterian churches who think they have it all figured out.
their confessions are very good. We differ on the church, and baptism.
http://www.rbclouisville.com/information/Reformed Baptist.pdf
http://emmanuelreformedbaptist.org/?page_id=128
http://www.aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?catid=17