Different Gospels?

[pilgrim2009]

Actually, Les Feldick is a wonderful teacher of the scriptures. I send people who are confused about that gospel to his web-site regularly. Just an excellant teacher.

The charge that I have heard that he does not teach "repentance" is absurd.

It is utterly impossible for any one to place their faith...faith alone...in Christ without repenting. The instant you place your faith in Christ you are no longer trusting in whatever else you were trusting.

Thats repentance...and Les Feldick teaches it.

As we progress in our christian walk attitudes and behaviors that are sinful and/or unprofitable will be dropping away and replaced with christian virtues and behaviors.

And Feldick teaches THAT as well.

And to say that because someone holds to some form of dispensationalism means they are a "heretic" is almost obscene from a christian point of view.

Havensdad took the words right out of my mouth.I am speechless for Havensdad proving you wrong about Les Feldick teaching repentance to the Gentile because he does not and he preaches a different gospel than what the Bible teaches thats under the curse of God.{Gal 1:8-9}

In Jesus.

Steven.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Steven,,,

"Havensdad took the words right out of my mouth.I am speechless for Havensdad proving you wrong about Les Feldick teaching repentance to the Gentile because he does not and he preaches a different gospel than what the Bible teaches thats under the curse of God.{Gal 1:8-9}

Let me try and explain it again for you. I'll try and make it as easy to understand as I can.

Les Feldick teaches the gospel of Jesus Christ.

When someone who has never placed their faith in Christ changes their mind, and places their faith in Christ...that person has repented.

It is impossible to believe the gospel and place your faith in Christ without repenting. When you place your faith in Christ, you have repented. To go from NOT believing the gospel...to BELIEVING the gospel...is every bit as much "repenting" as ceasing to commit adultery is.

What some people mistakenly teach regarding repentance is the heresy of a works based gospel. That being that one must *repent* of all of their sinful behaviours and attitudes as they embrace Christ...or they are not saved.

Thats a false gospel. That is a works gospel.

The scriptures teach...

"It is by grace that you are saved, through faith. And that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast."

It is after salvation that we begin the process of turning from sinfulness and replacing that with Godly behaviors and attitudes. After salvation the Holy Spirit is present in the life of the believer, enabeling the believer with the power to change. Les Feldick has the gospel correctly identified...Faith alone in Christ alone, and sanctification (turning from sin) in ITS proper place...after justification through faith alone

I pray post this is beneficial for you and others.

 

[Havensdad]

Steven,,,



Let me try and explain it again for you. I'll try and make it as easy to understand as I can.

Les Feldick teaches the gospel of Jesus Christ.

When someone who has never placed their faith in Christ changes their mind, and places their faith in Christ...that person has repented.

It is impossible to believe the gospel and place your faith in Christ without repenting. When you place your faith in Christ, you have repented. To go from NOT believing the gospel...to BELIEVING the gospel...is every bit as much "repenting" as ceasing to commit adultery is.

What some people mistakenly teach regarding repentance is the heresy of a works based gospel. That being that one must *repent* of all of their sinful behaviours and attitudes as they embrace Christ...or they are not saved.

Thats a false gospel. That is a works gospel.

The scriptures teach...



It is after salvation that we begin the process of turning from sinfulness and replacing that with Godly behaviors and attitudes. After salvation the Holy Spirit is present in the life of the believer, enabeling the believer with the power to change. Les Feldick has the gospel correctly identified...Faith alone in Christ alone, and sanctification (turning from sin) in ITS proper place...after justification through faith alone

I pray post this is beneficial for you and others.

Wrong. "Repentance" in the Biblical sense is not just a change TO something, but a change FROM something. "Metanoia" means literally to "turn your mind" regarding direction.

Look at Acts chapter 14:15 for instance. Paul shows specifically that you MUST turn from sin, AS you turn to Christ. You CANNOT turn to Christ, with out simultaneously turning from sin...

"We also are men, of like nature with you, and we bring you good news(this word is "euangellion", i.e. the "Gospel"), that you should turn from these vain things to a living God"

This is the SAME thing that Jesus commanded people to do! And He warned those that didn't, they were in danger of "losing their soul"


Mat 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.
Mat 16:26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in


Repentance is turning from sin. This is NOT works. The word "ergon" (works) requires action. It is DOING something, like being circumcised. TURNING from sin, is the OPPOSITE of works: it is "not doing anything".

So, you were practicing adultery. When you turn from that, you STOP practicing adultery. You are now not doing anything.

So, repenting is a continual turning from sin, TO God. God is in one direction, sin is in the other, and you CAN'T come to God, without simultaneously turning from sin.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Havensdad...

""Repentance" in the Biblical sense is not just a change TO something, but a change FROM something. "Metanoia" means literally to "turn your mind" regarding direction.

I agree. We repent by turning from not embracing Christ through faith alone, and trusting whatever else we were trusting in...and we turn to placing our faith in Christ alone for the gift of eternal life.

"For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Faith and faith alone. Not...of...works

When the question was asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", the response was "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved"

Believing, and believing ALONE. No works.

You again...

"Look at Acts chapter 14:15 for instance. Paul shows specifically that you MUST turn from sin, AS you turn to Christ. You CANNOT turn to Christ, with out simultaneously turning from sin..."

The sin one must turn from to be saved is the sin of NOT embracing Christ through faith alone. You must forsake all "promises to be good", all "I'll never do that again" promises, all "I'll be really really good from now on" promises, etc etc etc.

Its faith and faith alone.

To tell someone they must "repent of all their sins" in order to be accepted by Christ is to teach a heretical gospel. A false gospel that is condemned in the scriptures. Its a gospel of "works". Its a gospel based on lawkeeping, and "earning it", rather then recieving justification by grace through faith.
Its the false gospel that Rome and scores and scores of other cults proclaim.

Here is what God says about it...

"knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. 17 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

Galatians 3

Justification by Faith

1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[d] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you[e] as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?5 Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[f] 7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”[g] 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

The Law Brings a Curse

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[h] 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[j]13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[k]), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

As christians we are to have no part in any gospel of WORKS.

You again...

"Repentance is turning from sin. This is NOT works. The word "ergon" (works) requires action. It is DOING something, like being circumcised. TURNING from sin, is the OPPOSITE of works: it is "not doing anything".

So, you were practicing adultery. When you turn from that, you STOP practicing adultery. You are now not doing anything.

I agree with all of that. That all comes AFTER one is born of the Spirit. That is when sanctification takes place. It will be going on our entire lives.

 

[pilgrim2009]

Mercy mercy in Jesus name.You know grace goes further than the OT Law.The OT 10 Commandments one says thou shalt not commit adultery and Jesus says if you think it your guilty.The OT says thou shalt not kill and Jesus says not to be even angry at someone etc.


Some weaken the Law by grace but Jesus makes the Law stronger through grace.


Matt 5:17 Jesus said he did not come to destroy the Law.

Matt 5:18 Jesus said until heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall in no wise {i.e.under no circumstance}pass from the Law,till all be fulfilled.

Has all been fulfilled?

Jesus refers to those that teach the commandments {i.e.law of God} that they will be great in the Kingdom of God and those that teach different least in the Kingdom of God {Matt 5:19}

How can grace do away with the Law of God when Jesus says the Law wont fail until heaven and earth pass away?

God bless in Jesus.

Steven.

 

[IveyLeaguer]

What's with the digging up of unclosed threads, these days?? It appears someone is resurrecting some 'apparently long since dead' thread every few days or so, lately.

Start a new one, for cryin' out loud. The entire Great Tribulation lasts for only 3 1/2 Years. This thread was buried for longer than that!

I've been on this board for over 3 years, myself and have made >7500 posts. This thread was dead and buried for 6 mos. before I joined, and with the exhumation of this thread, at this late date, the best description of it is "Lo, he stinketh!"

I, for one, am glad it was resurrected. It's a good thread, a good discussion. Several traditional views are actually discussed intelligently.

That's the beauty of this format - it is not time sensitive. Who wants to put a lot of thought and work into a post just to have it disappear in 3 days? Most people don't live on here and are too busy to check in the BB every week.

Not only that, some of the best discussions - the most insightful and educating - took place before you joined. IMHO, it hasn't gotten better since then, but the other way around, especially the last several years. I found the BB doing research on Watchman Nee, and the search engine turned up an old thread, buried deep in the archives, which was very helpful, one of those long threads some complain about. Sometime after I decided to join. There were some great discussions in those days.

Far from being a liability, the archived threads are a great asset. I suspect Dr. Bob knows this, which is why he has maintained them.

~~~

 

[IveyLeaguer]

There is only One Gospel, there has never been but one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ which is the Gospel of Grace. The Apostle Paul states that the Gospel he preached was the same Gospel that was preached to Abraham and was the same Gpspel that Jesus Christ preached.

Galatians 3:8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Paul also defines this Gospel as:

Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

To say that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is not the same Gospel that Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile is heretical.

Very nice presentation in this thread, OR.

Well done.

~~~

 

[OldRegular]

Very nice presentation in this thread, OR.

Well done.

~~~

Many thanks!

 

[OldRegular]

There is apparently confusion by some as to by faith and through faith. Actually they are identical in meaning since by and through are synonyms. If one would check the faith chapter, Hebrews 11, using Strong's they would see that the same Greek word is translated by faith and through faith.

For some unknown reason folks in the Old Testament and Jews in the New Testament were supposedly justified by faith while Gentiles in the New Testament are justified through faith. You ponder this and see if you can understand.