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different lvl's of hell
- Thread starter gekko
- Start date
I disagree. The Bible states that EVERYONE will give an account for the actions done in the body...good and bad. There certainly will be more suffering from some than others, in the same way there will be more rewards for some than others.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
Matthew 11:20-24 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Based on the above Scipture I believe that there will be degrees or levels of Hell. Jesus says plainly that although the wickedness of Sodom (homosexuality) was great, the sin of rejecting Christ was much greater, because they had seen the mighty works of Christ done right before their very eyes and still they believed not. This was expecially true of Capernaum where Jesus once said that he could do no more works (miracles) there because of their unbelief. They would not repent.
Hitler was shown the truth at one time in his life. He rejected it. Great will be his punishment.
Likewise Marx.
And what shall one say of all the brutal dictators throughout history. Everyone shall be judged according to their works. In the lake of fire there will be degrees of punishment. Don't be like the J.W.'s, whose rejection of the trinity is based on: "Because I don't understand I won't believe it."
Because I don't understand the teaching of these verses doesn't mean I should not believe it.
DHK
21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
Based on the above Scipture I believe that there will be degrees or levels of Hell. Jesus says plainly that although the wickedness of Sodom (homosexuality) was great, the sin of rejecting Christ was much greater, because they had seen the mighty works of Christ done right before their very eyes and still they believed not. This was expecially true of Capernaum where Jesus once said that he could do no more works (miracles) there because of their unbelief. They would not repent.
Hitler was shown the truth at one time in his life. He rejected it. Great will be his punishment.
Likewise Marx.
And what shall one say of all the brutal dictators throughout history. Everyone shall be judged according to their works. In the lake of fire there will be degrees of punishment. Don't be like the J.W.'s, whose rejection of the trinity is based on: "Because I don't understand I won't believe it."
Because I don't understand the teaching of these verses doesn't mean I should not believe it.
DHK
Marcia
Active Member
LeBuick said:
I think "hell" is the grave in some cases, or death. Death will be thrown into the lake of fire. So I don't think death and the lake of fire are different levels. I think hell as we think of it as eternal punishment/separation from God is the same as the Lake of Fire.
Dakes Bible is messed up. He has a lot of unbiblical stuff in his bible. A lot of the word faith people take things from his bible (God has a body, for example).
Brother Bob
New Member
I think Hell is for the soul of the wicked and the Lake of Fire is for both their souls and their bodies and Hell itself with all those (souls of the wicked) in Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire which is the final.. I can't argue with the scriptures where Jesus said it would be more tolerable for some of the wicked than for others but in the end He said the "hour is coming when ALL in the grave shall come forward and unto them that have done good the resurrection of life and unto them that have done evil, the resurrection of damnation.
Hard to imagine different levels when you in a Lake of Fire. I don't see the point really.
Hard to imagine different levels when you in a Lake of Fire. I don't see the point really.
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Brother Bob
New Member
Well, my post is talking about just one Hell but I believe until the end that only the souls of the wicked will be in Hell and when in the end it says "death and hell" delivered up the dead that are in them I think it is talking about the souls that are in Hell and bodies which are in the grave of the wicked and both "death and hell" will be cast into the Lake of Fire which will be where both soul and body will be tormented forever.
This is a deliberate misquote isn't it Bob? I believe that by now you have Mat.10:28 memorized.BobRyan said:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Christ never said that he would destoy both body and soul in Hell. He never said that he would give me a million dollars either.
He said fear him which is able to to destroy both body and soul in Hell. It never said that he did, is doing, or is going to do. Never.
And yet this is your proof text for the annihilation of the wicked, a doctrine which I consider heretical. There is eternal damnation for the wicked.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
--Day and night for ever and ever can't be argued against.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
--The same fate befalls all the unsaved from all ages.
All the unsaved will stand before God in their resurrected bodies and they will be given their final sentence of judgement and be thrown into the lake of fire. As the believers resurrection body will live forever in eternity with Christ, the unbelievers' resurrection body will live in the Lake of Fire without Christ and suffer without Christ. Though the human mind may not fully understand this at a human level, it is fair and just in God's eye.
DHK
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Christ argues that we should not fear with wicked men plan to do – and in fact DO – to the saints. “Kill the body” since in those things they are not able to “kill” the soul. Rather fear what God plans to do – and in fact WILL do in the fiery hell to come – to “destroy BOTH body AND soul” doing that which sinful men CAN NOT do to their fellow man.
His argument is not of the form “Do not fear what sinful man Can and DOES do to the saints rather fear what God will NEVER do to the wicked – which is to destroy BOTH body and soul (though He could do it – He will never do it so don’t worry about it)”
In Matt 10 Christ goes from the idea of “Kill” to the even MORE complete idea of “Kill and destroy” in the sequence above. This progression is seen clearly as Luke relates the same teaching below.
In Matt 10 Christ goes from the idea of “Kill” to the even MORE complete idea of “Kill and destroy” in the sequence above. This progression is seen clearly as Luke relates the same teaching below.
Rev 20:9 “Fire DEVOURED the wicked”
Rev 11:18 “Destroy those who Destroy the earth”
2Thess 1:9 The wicked pay the “penalty of eternal Destruction”
Ps 21:8-10 “devoured” – “Destroyed”
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The reference to the lake of fire – is already mentioned in Rev 19 – and we see it before the 1000 years as well as after. It would appear that it too is on earth. Heaven and earth have both been referenced so far in the chapter – as though both exist before and after the 1000 years.
Here we notice again that it is the “sea” and the “Grave” that give up the dead – these are terms that would appear to apply to the earth. So also we see that the wicked are throne into the lake of fire – first mentioned in Rev 19 at the appearing of Christ prior to the 1000 years.
The term "hell" in Rev 20 is not the one that we see in Matt 10. In Rev 20 we have “Hades” which is literally the dead in “graves”. This makes perfect sense when we note that “The Sea and the grave” are giving up what is in the. WERE this really some kind of afterlife-hell then many of those who went down into the sea would ALSO be in Hell!
Here Jamieson,Fausset,Brown[/b] show that the term "Hades" is used to represent "grave" in Rev 20 not "Hell fire".
13. death and hell--Greek, "Hades." The essential identity of the dying and risen body is hereby shown; for the sea and grave give up their dead. The body that sinned or served God shall, in righteous retribution, be the body also that shall suffer or be rewarded. The "sea" may have a symbolical [CLUVER from AUGUSTINE], besides the literal meaning, as, in Re 8:8; 12:12; 13:1; 18:17, 19; so "death" and "hell" are personifications (compare Re 21:1). But the literal sense need hardly be departed from: all the different regions wherein the bodies and souls of men had been, gave them up.
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=020
JFB show that there is no way to equivocate between "hell" (Hades - the grave) in Rev 20 and the fiery Ghenna of Matt 10.
In Luke 12:5 Jamieson, Fausset, Brown (JFB) also show that this same "Fiery hell" rather than "the grave - HADES" of Rev 20 is the focus -- Just as I did.
John and Jacob Abbott point out that in Rev 20 "Hades is the grave"
http://www.studylight.org/com/ain/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=020
Here we notice again that it is the “sea” and the “Grave” that give up the dead – these are terms that would appear to apply to the earth. So also we see that the wicked are throne into the lake of fire – first mentioned in Rev 19 at the appearing of Christ prior to the 1000 years.
The term "hell" in Rev 20 is not the one that we see in Matt 10. In Rev 20 we have “Hades” which is literally the dead in “graves”. This makes perfect sense when we note that “The Sea and the grave” are giving up what is in the. WERE this really some kind of afterlife-hell then many of those who went down into the sea would ALSO be in Hell!
Here Jamieson,Fausset,Brown[/b] show that the term "Hades" is used to represent "grave" in Rev 20 not "Hell fire".
13. death and hell--Greek, "Hades." The essential identity of the dying and risen body is hereby shown; for the sea and grave give up their dead. The body that sinned or served God shall, in righteous retribution, be the body also that shall suffer or be rewarded. The "sea" may have a symbolical [CLUVER from AUGUSTINE], besides the literal meaning, as, in Re 8:8; 12:12; 13:1; 18:17, 19; so "death" and "hell" are personifications (compare Re 21:1). But the literal sense need hardly be departed from: all the different regions wherein the bodies and souls of men had been, gave them up.
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=020
JFB show that there is no way to equivocate between "hell" (Hades - the grave) in Rev 20 and the fiery Ghenna of Matt 10.
In Luke 12:5 Jamieson, Fausset, Brown (JFB) also show that this same "Fiery hell" rather than "the grave - HADES" of Rev 20 is the focus -- Just as I did.
John and Jacob Abbott point out that in Rev 20 "Hades is the grave"
http://www.studylight.org/com/ain/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=020
Brother Bob
New Member
So, He throws the grave in the lake of fire twice, or are there two places of punishment for the wicked that is eternal?
How come it says that the 1000 years is past tense?
How come it was only "souls" that lived and reigned a 1000 years, where were their bodies?
How come Christ didn't allow time for the 1000 years in His description of the resurrection?
How come Christ has aready been the firstfruits of them that slept that arose from the graves?
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The 1000 years is past tense in Rev 20 "AFter the 1000 years" the grave and hades are tossed into the Lake of fire "This is the 2nd death".
The 2nd death - which is the debt - or penalty owed for sin -- does not take place until after the 1000 years. 1000 years from the first resurrection (the resurrection of the dead in Christ) you get the "second resurrection" and over THESE the 2nd death DOES have power.
Death and Hades are tossed into the lake of Fire. In Acts 2 we learn that David went to Hades. The grave.
I think the scholars quoted in my previous posts got it right in Rev 20 as far as "what" Hades is.
First Res (Rev 20:4) (1Thess 4) Which happens at the Rev 19-20 appearing of Christ.
Then 1000 years (Rev 20:4-20:6)
Then the REST of the dead (those not raised in the first res) come to life are judged and are thrown into the lake of fire "the second death".
In Christ,
Bob
The 2nd death - which is the debt - or penalty owed for sin -- does not take place until after the 1000 years. 1000 years from the first resurrection (the resurrection of the dead in Christ) you get the "second resurrection" and over THESE the 2nd death DOES have power.
Death and Hades are tossed into the lake of Fire. In Acts 2 we learn that David went to Hades. The grave.
I think the scholars quoted in my previous posts got it right in Rev 20 as far as "what" Hades is.
First Res (Rev 20:4) (1Thess 4) Which happens at the Rev 19-20 appearing of Christ.
Then 1000 years (Rev 20:4-20:6)
Then the REST of the dead (those not raised in the first res) come to life are judged and are thrown into the lake of fire "the second death".
In Christ,
Bob
Brother Bob
New Member
It seems that Hades means several things but is for the departed souls and you say grave but it could and I beleive was "Hell".
It also could of been Hell in Hebrew.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
From Acts 2 it is very clear -- Hades is the grave --
Acts 2:
24 "" But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
25 ""For David says of Him, " I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE; FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
26 "THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED; MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
27 BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
28 "YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE; YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.'
29 "" Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
That is why it is so logical to agree with Abbott
John and Jacob Abbott point out that in Rev 20 "Hades is the grave"
Verse 13 And hell; the grave.
http://www.studylight.org/com/ain/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=020
Acts 2:
24 "" But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.
25 ""For David says of Him, " I SAW THE LORD ALWAYS IN MY PRESENCE; FOR HE IS AT MY RIGHT HAND, SO THAT I WILL NOT BE SHAKEN.
26 "THEREFORE MY HEART WAS GLAD AND MY TONGUE EXULTED; MOREOVER MY FLESH ALSO WILL LIVE IN HOPE;
27 BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.
28 "YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE; YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE.'
29 "" Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
That is why it is so logical to agree with Abbott
John and Jacob Abbott point out that in Rev 20 "Hades is the grave"
Verse 13 And hell; the grave.
http://www.studylight.org/com/ain/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=020
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Brother Bob
New Member
I believe it was talking about the grave where the corruption of the body would take place but the soul of our Lord was not in the grave but was in a hell while He was still alive.
Hell is a place of confinement and His soul and body were confined to the Cross but only the body went into the tomb. I believe that as Jonah was in the belly of the whale and said "out of the belly of hell cried I" which he was confined to that also the Lord was confined to the Cross which I believe to be His Hell.
Hell is a place of confinement and His soul and body were confined to the Cross but only the body went into the tomb. I believe that as Jonah was in the belly of the whale and said "out of the belly of hell cried I" which he was confined to that also the Lord was confined to the Cross which I believe to be His Hell.