Differentiating being born-again from the Holy Spirit baptism

[Internet Theologian]

Why doesn't the resident self-proclaimed theologian address the OP?

What's the point of your OP? I don't see that you've made one as of yet other than your self-proclaimed status to which you add Billy Graham to your list. Make a point and I may respond.

 

[Browner]

What's the point of your OP?

What's the point of your OP? ... Really.
How about making a comment on its' content?
Let's do a CC.

 

[Internet Theologian]

What's the point of your OP? ... Really.
How about making a comment on its' content?
Let's do a CC.

I'm being serious here as to your intent in the OP. What is its point? The words 'upon' and 'indwelt' were pointed out. You've mentioned you and Billy Graham as two mavericks of one class. What point are you trying to make?

 

[thatbrian]

Man's free will is KING.

Chapter and verse, please.

 

[Browner]

Quite a number of spiritual Truths are not laid out
in a totally obvious fashion in Scripture.
We are supposed to be led by the Spirit, etc.
Jesus said the Spirit would reveal all things to us, etc.

So, why are many believers (such as Baptists)
lacking in spiritual understanding?
Answer: They have been brainwashed into believing lies,
so they are just not open to receiving spiritual Truth.
It's as simple as that.

The doctrines of men are preferred over
the Truths laid out in Scripture.
It's as simple as that.
Not complicated at all.

Satan is "the god/ruler of this world/age".
And man's free will is King.
Ain't no robots here, hear?

 

[thatbrian]

The doctrines of men are preferred over
the Truths laid out in Scripture.
It's as simple as that.
Not complicated at all.

Your reply to me seems a bit hypocritical. Again, what is the biblical basis for this: "Man's free will is KING."

 

[annsni]

Your reply to me seems a bit hypocritical. Again, what is the biblical basis for this: "Man's free will is KING."

I agree. I always thought that Jesus was King.

 

[Browner]

I'm being serious here as to your intent in the OP.
What is its point? ...
You've mentioned you and Billy Graham as two mavericks of one class. What point are you trying to make?

One point you should understand is that
Willy and I were/are not any kind of maverick!
Are you out of your mind?

 

[Browner]

Again, what is the biblical basis for this: "Man's free will is KING."

The Biblical basis is the NT.
Man gets to CHOOSE whether or not
he/she will follow God's will.

My personal favorite is Romans 6:16-23.
Super quick translation for those who
cannot read and understand Scripture:
Believers, CHOOSE sin or obedience!

You may believe that you are a robot,
butski I know that I am not one!

 

[thatbrian]

The Biblical basis is the NT.
Man gets to CHOOSE whether or not
he/she will follow God's will.

My personal favorite is Romans 6:16-23.
Super quick translation for those who
cannot read and understand Scripture:
Believers, CHOOSE sin or obedience!

You may believe that you are a robot,
butski I know that I am not one!

Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, long-suffering, self-control.

 

[Yeshua1]

What I realize from BOTH Scripture and
the confirmation of spiritual experience
that you have been bamboozled.

7 verses teach that the Holy Spirit
comes INSIDE when one first believes.
7 verses teach that the Holy Spirit
comes UPON when one receives
the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Can you quote ANY NT verse by any Writer stating to us that we must seek the experience of being Baptized in the Holy Ghost after Pentacost then?

My bible states that we ALL have parten of the SAME Holy Spirit, and ALL already have been baptized by Him into the Body of christ, but do you have extra revelation on that?

 

[revmwc]

This information is critical for helping believers understand what will be happening in the last days. It is not what the churches teach for various reasons (explanation available).

We say a person has been born-again when the Holy Spirit has come INSIDE ... John 14:16-23, Rom 8:11, 1 Cor 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16

The following “baptism” is done by the Holy Spirit, and this is the
ONLY place in Scripture where this unification “baptism” is mentioned:
“For BY one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation” (2 Cor 5:17)
This can happen to a person without him/her even realizing it (witness me and Billy Graham!)

Jesus was the first to receive the special baptism where the Holy Spirit comes UPON
“When He had been (water) baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting UPON Him.” (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32)

Peter spoke of the results of Jesus’ baptism
Acts 10:38 • “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power”
Father God authenticated the Truth of Jesus’ gospel with power (signs and wonders).

John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who anoints people with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit … Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33

Jesus promised this baptism with the Holy Spirit to the first believers
Luke 24:49 • “Behold, I send the Promise of My Father UPON you;
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
Acts 1:4-8 • “He commanded them … to wait for the Promise of the Father … ‘you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now … you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come UPON you’ ”

Peter said Jesus also received power when the Spirit came UPON Him (Acts 10:38).
The translators mistakenly assume that Jesus means the Promise (capital “P”) is the Holy Spirit, but really Jesus is referring to this special baptism (see the small “p” in Acts 2:33 and 2:38).

On the Day of Pentecost
Acts 2:3-4 • “Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat UPON each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave utterance.”
A few words (at least) spoken in tongues is the evidence of receiving this special baptism.

Peter explains what had just happened
Acts 2:33 • “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”
Notice the small “p” (here and below) refer to the baptism
(and not the Holy Spirit).

Peter explains how people can have the same experience
Acts 2:38 • “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
No mention at all up to this point about water baptism.

Both “the promise” and “the gift” refer to this baptism with the Holy Spirit re: the Day of Pentecost. Peter, at this point, had NO under-standing of the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE of believers. It is not mentioned anywhere in Acts to my knowledge about the indwelling Holy Spirit.

These Samarians had believed and had been water baptized
Acts 8:14-19 • “Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen UPON none of them. They had only been (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also …”
Do you know anyone who exhibited spiritual power at the point of receiving the Holy Spirit?

Peter is involved in the first experience of Gentiles receiving the gift of the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 • “the Holy Spirit fell UPON all those who heard the word. And the Jews who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out ON the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.”
These believers were in-filled with the Holy Spirit at the same time as they were Spirit-baptized. And to follow along after this experience, here we have the first mention of water baptism.

Peter recalls his experience with the Gentiles (above)
Acts 11:15 • “… the Holy Spirit fell UPON them, as UPON us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ”

Paul helps disciples at Ephesus receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 19:5-6 • “… they were (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hand upon them, the Holy Spirit came UPON them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied ..."

In the 7 passages where it is specifically mentioned that the Holy Spirit
came UPON believers, these other items are also mentioned:
the promise, the gift, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, power, filled with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, laying on of hands, prophecy.
These things are not involved …
when believers receive the Holy Spirit INSIDE and are born-again.

Ephesians 4:
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

The one Baptism is the of The Holy Spirit. Notice Verse 6 says He is Above All that is the Father, Through all that is the Lord Jesus and in you All that would be the Holy Spirit who indwells us at the point of being saved and sealed by the Baptism of the Holy Spirit who comes into us and indwells us at the point we place our Faith and Trust in Christ. Paul states this about every believer,
1 Corinthians 6:19-20
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

 

[Browner]

Can you quote ANY NT verse by any Writer stating to us that we must seek the experience of being Baptized in the Holy Ghost after Pentacost then?
My bible states that we ALL have parten of the SAME Holy Spirit, and ALL already have been baptized by Him into the Body of christ, but do you have extra revelation on that?

NOPE ...
haven't I said that it is a special anointing for some kind of ministry?
Has anyone w/o it ever received revelation about this truth?
Yes, some have ... and they press in until they receive it.
I wuz one of these.
The best encouragement is Matthew 7:7-11.
And then, of course, there is the famous Persistent Widow.
Some are given it just so their prayers will be mucho more effective.
I.E. this baptism doesn't have to be for a world-famous ministry.

 

[plain_n_simple]

The Holy Spirit baptism died out in the Baptist Church in the 1700's or so. God will not force a gift.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Holy Spirit baptism died out in the Baptist Church in the 1700's or so. God will not force a gift.

NOPE ...
haven't I said that it is a special anointing for some kind of ministry?
Has anyone w/o it ever received revelation about this truth?
Yes, some have ... and they press in until they receive it.
I wuz one of these.
The best encouragement is Matthew 7:7-11.
And then, of course, there is the famous Persistent Widow.
Some are given it just so their prayers will be mucho more effective.
I.E. this baptism doesn't have to be for a world-famous ministry.

Again, you cannot claim any second experience of the Holy spirit from the Bible itself, so are you using teachings from heretics such as WOF teachers to claim it is for today?

 

[Browner]

Again, you cannot claim any second experience of the Holy spirit from the Bible itself, so are you using teachings from heretics such as WOF teachers to claim it is for today?

Of course I can ... and I have done so in great depth
... but you simply refuse to accept it.
Goodbye!

 

[plain_n_simple]

This information is critical for helping believers understand what will be happening in the last days. It is not what the churches teach for various reasons (explanation available).

We say a person has been born-again when the Holy Spirit has come INSIDE ... John 14:16-23, Rom 8:11, 1 Cor 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16

The following “baptism” is done by the Holy Spirit, and this is the
ONLY place in Scripture where this unification “baptism” is mentioned:
“For BY one Spirit we were all baptized into one body (the church)
… and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.” (1 Cor 12:13)
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation” (2 Cor 5:17)
This can happen to a person without him/her even realizing it (witness me and Billy Graham!)

Jesus was the first to receive the special baptism where the Holy Spirit comes UPON
“When He had been (water) baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting UPON Him.” (Matthew 3:16, Mark 1:10, Luke 3:22, John 1:32)

Peter spoke of the results of Jesus’ baptism
Acts 10:38 • “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power”
Father God authenticated the Truth of Jesus’ gospel with power (signs and wonders).

John the Baptist said Jesus is the One who anoints people with a special baptism with the Holy Spirit … Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33

Jesus promised this baptism with the Holy Spirit to the first believers
Luke 24:49 • “Behold, I send the Promise of My Father UPON you;
but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”
Acts 1:4-8 • “He commanded them … to wait for the Promise of the Father … ‘you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now … you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come UPON you’ ”

Peter said Jesus also received power when the Spirit came UPON Him (Acts 10:38).
The translators mistakenly assume that Jesus means the Promise (capital “P”) is the Holy Spirit, but really Jesus is referring to this special baptism (see the small “p” in Acts 2:33 and 2:38).

On the Day of Pentecost
Acts 2:3-4 • “Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat UPON each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave utterance.”
A few words (at least) spoken in tongues is the evidence of receiving this special baptism.

Peter explains what had just happened
Acts 2:33 • “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.”
Notice the small “p” (here and below) refer to the baptism
(and not the Holy Spirit).

Peter explains how people can have the same experience
Acts 2:38 • “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
No mention at all up to this point about water baptism.

Both “the promise” and “the gift” refer to this baptism with the Holy Spirit re: the Day of Pentecost. Peter, at this point, had NO under-standing of the Holy Spirit coming INSIDE of believers. It is not mentioned anywhere in Acts to my knowledge about the indwelling Holy Spirit.

These Samarians had believed and had been water baptized
Acts 8:14-19 • “Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen UPON none of them. They had only been (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also …”
Do you know anyone who exhibited spiritual power at the point of receiving the Holy Spirit?

Peter is involved in the first experience of Gentiles receiving the gift of the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 • “the Holy Spirit fell UPON all those who heard the word. And the Jews who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out ON the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, ‘Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?’ And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.”
These believers were in-filled with the Holy Spirit at the same time as they were Spirit-baptized. And to follow along after this experience, here we have the first mention of water baptism.

Peter recalls his experience with the Gentiles (above)
Acts 11:15 • “… the Holy Spirit fell UPON them, as UPON us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ ”

Paul helps disciples at Ephesus receive the baptism with the Holy Spirit
Acts 19:5-6 • “… they were (water) baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid hand upon them, the Holy Spirit came UPON them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied ..."

In the 7 passages where it is specifically mentioned that the Holy Spirit
came UPON believers, these other items are also mentioned:
the promise, the gift, the baptism with the Holy Spirit, power, filled with the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, laying on of hands, prophecy.
These things are not involved …
when believers receive the Holy Spirit INSIDE and are born-again.

Excellent, very well put.

 

[TCassidy]

Let's see. Browner says there are two baptisms. Water baptism and Spirit baptism.

God says there is one baptism. Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Who to believe? Who to believe?

Oh, yeah! God!

 

[SovereignGrace]

Chapter and verse, please.

2 Calamities 3:17, 2 Hesitations 9:34, & Oy Vey 16:89

 

[steaver]

NOPE ...
haven't I said that it is a special anointing for some kind of ministry?
Has anyone w/o it ever received revelation about this truth?
Yes, some have ... and they press in until they receive it.
I wuz one of these.
The best encouragement is Matthew 7:7-11.
And then, of course, there is the famous Persistent Widow.
Some are given it just so their prayers will be mucho more effective.
I.E. this baptism doesn't have to be for a world-famous ministry.

And what is this "special" ministry you have been anointed to do? Tell all the mainstream Baptist they are not following God's Word? Many have come before you with this same "ministry". Ellen White, Joseph Smith, Russell come to mind just to name a few. You have failed in the reconciling thread you began and now you are failing in this one. It's seems your special ministry may not be from the Lord as you may have first thought. Careful when you seek that which is extra biblical, it may not be the Lord who fulfills your desire...