Dr, Criswell used one version. However, the quote I referred to was when Dr. Clearwaters of Fourth Baptist, Pillsbury BBC, and Central Baptist Seminary used it. As a Northern Baptist (after 1948 IFB), he had no ties to the SBC.
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Diffference between independent and Southern Baptists -part II
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
You can keep rope of sand, we'll take strands of angel hair pasta.
I can think of two big differences between IBF (BBF and Hyles) and SBC. Southern Baptists hope their kids go to regular college and advance educationally and economic. The IBF pushed their kids into unaccredited bible schools which did not prepare kids for being professional.
The other difference is that SBC churches had committees and their members had great say in the the churches. The IFB churches the pastors were almost dictators.
Jeff
The other difference is that SBC churches had committees and their members had great say in the the churches. The IFB churches the pastors were almost dictators.
Jeff
Jeff - when I read your response - something immediately came to mind!
I had been attending and considering joining a IFB church -
Well, according to their constitution - they had over a dozen committees
Which was fine when they were running about 200 members.
Well, there was a big split in the church - actually 3 groups left and started their own church.
Well, the attendence was down to about 25 members - yet they still had the 12+ committees
with 4-6 members on each committee. That meant that each member was on 3 committees
Granted - that is not typical of all IFB churches - but with thousands of IFB's - there are way to
many to make such a broad statement.
BTW - the pastor at the time had two things going - 1) he was involved in the "Operation Rescue" movement
and he was arrested a number of times. The chruch told him they were paying him to preach, not to be in
jail - and 2) in spite of having went to Liberty Baptist College - he became a pentecostal.
I can say there are at least 2 other subsectors of the IBF sector of the Baptist galaxy:: the FBF and the GARBC. The lead schools in both are accredited.
In the past the GARBC approved schools for the benefit of churches affiliated with the GARBC
Around 1990 or there abouts - Dr. L. Duane Brown (a well known and respected leader in GARBC circles) was concerned about the approval system.
It would be the council of 18 who would make the formal approval of mission boards, schools, and ect. The problem was that several of the board members were the Presidents of said agencies. Anotherwords - it was the case of the wolf guarding the hen house. If I'm not mistaken, Dr Brown wanted the GARB constitution changed so that any salaried person of a GARB approved agy could not be on the council of 18. In addition, since the GARB was an association of churches, than only pasotrs should be on the council of 18. check out this book Dr Brown wrote:
and as Squire has said - all the GARB schools are accredited.
One other thing - Ceadervill University - has also been "approved" by the SBC as well - some GARB are not too happy about that.
Forgot to mention - the reason I did not join was becacuse, I moved from the Salt City to Virginia.
Salty:
September 12, 2019 • Banquet honors former presidents and highlights the 98-year history of Faith Baptist Bible College
"Dr. Robert Domokos, Dr. David Boylan, Dr. Richard Houg, Dr. John Hartog III, Dr. James Maxwell III, and Dr. Jim Tillotson were all present....Dr. L. Duane Brown, former president of Denver Baptist Bible College and Theological Seminary, was also in attendance."
September 12, 2019 • Banquet honors former presidents and highlights the 98-year history of Faith Baptist Bible College
"Dr. Robert Domokos, Dr. David Boylan, Dr. Richard Houg, Dr. John Hartog III, Dr. James Maxwell III, and Dr. Jim Tillotson were all present....Dr. L. Duane Brown, former president of Denver Baptist Bible College and Theological Seminary, was also in attendance."
Thanks, been many, many years since I have seen Dr. Brown. I did have lunch with in 1986 (the day the space shuttle exploded)
Then I think I saw him a couple of years later at his home in NJ.
Happy Thanksgiving. I was not trying to paint with a broad brush. That's why I limited my remarks to BBF and Hyles. I have belonged to both over 50 years. I learned from this Baptist Board last year that there are Northern Related Baptists and Southern Related Baptists. I have visted GARBC , Conservative Baptist Churches and ABC in So Cal one time each but have only belonged to the Southern related Churches. It appears that I am most comfortable in the Southern related churches even though I have lived in California and Colorado for 50 years.I don't think this is good or bad, just a reflection on me being a child of the South. The SBC or Missionary churches I belonged to in SO Cal were still southern in atmosphere. Think Norwalk Southern Baptist Church. The southern churches in SO Cal have mostly died or have readjusted completely. There were tons of Southern people who left the south. I think most like my parents are dead now.
Jeff
Jeff
Salty, you don't agree with this, do you? That agency heads should have been banned from serving as leaders of the Association?
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evenifigoalone
Well-Known Member
Curious, are any other denominations besides IFB known to be King James only? In my experience that's almost solely an IFB thing, but
and keep in mind that all IFB are not KJO
First, just a minor techincality - I do not capatalise "Church" unless I am speaking of a specific church.
As far as denomination:
There are two general definitions
1) an organization with a hirecharcy
2) a group of churches who have similar beleifs.
So a IFB that is not in an organized association - would stll be in a denomonation
as those baptist churches have similar beliefs
Actually no Baptist church is in a denomination as any church can leave at any time
and that group has no authority over them. Granted, there may be times when there is
a finanical interest - say a church has borrowed money from an association to help build
the building, make repairs, ect. Part of the agreement is that church must stay associated
until said loan is paid off. I do not consider that as ruling over that local church - as a similar
principal would be involved if money were to be loaned by a bank.
Groups such as the Southern Baptist Convention - is not a denomination (first definition) as the
SBC has no control over the local churches. The SBC is not able to force any local to use Lifeway, to
demand that a certian amount of dollars be sent to the co-op program, to insist on certian doctrines -
(yes, we have the 2000 BFM - but all chruches do not accept all articles in it.
But since all SBC churches have similar beliefs - that does make us a baptist denomination.
Nothing to get all worked up over about.
I fully agree with Dr. Brown on that issue. - The book I mentioned "What Happened to the GARBC at Niagara Falls?" was speaking
of the National Conference in 1990. At the point in time I had been out the GARB for many years. So I was not up to date on those
issues. During my travels,a few years later, I had stopped at Dr Browns home and at that time he gave me that book.
Good for you!
Oops...wouldn't that stance likewise require opposition to Al Mohler's announced campaign for the SBC Presidency?
Just, sayin'...
LOL
Any church can leave at any time in most denominations. And, only a few denominations practice significant control over member churches. As I noted earlier in this topic, the difference between a IFB church and a Presbyterian church leaving the denomination is just a little paperwork.
Even the difference between a Roman Catholic church and an IFB church is mostly tradition, not the authority of the denomination. The Catholic church has a priest and hails Mary not because the Roman Catholic Church told them to, but because it's a Catholic church. (The selection of the priest, though, is by the RCC.)
In Protestant denominations, the function of a denomination isn't control of a local church, but to provide services to the local church.
Would you agree that unlike any other assembly, the IFB cannot be removed?
For example, all others may “disassociate” or “unaffiliated” or “remove voting privileges” or whatever association privelages, but the IFB by nature of not having formal written associations can not be removed?
I don’t really grasp your thinking about RCC and IFB being different only in tradition.