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Digging tools

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I went to school in a different century, and the digging tools were far different then I see used by the typical student and classroom of today. (I peeked at some pictures of student classrooms online,)

Where once a library was stacked with research books, periodicals, journals, ... and students would gather great learning experience by having to actually spend hours reading (do they even have card catalogs and use the Dewey Decimal System?), the situation seems quite different.

More often a student, by merely having to read so much of many other topics in search of the single topic of their assignment, the educational value was greatly enhanced. One, by nature of the searching, would reap a background knowledge that proved invaluable as at least having read much on many concepts in their search for that particular to their focused study. To my thinking, students were in fact better generally educated a century ago, then some, today. Where generally skinner, more dexterous, and often more polite because they were in a position of always having to ask and more often beg for someone to type while they continued to research. (That should bring back memories from some of you long ago learners)

However, embracing modern technology has placed building massive personal libraries, in which shelving was always in short supply, to pushing buttons and on screen icons.


Therefore, the topic of this thread.

What would you suggest as the needed software of the beginning college student, and what one needs as a beginning seminary student.

Remember, this is assuming the student has a very basic laptop and virtually no financial support.

What “digging tools” would you recommend be purchased as “must have” as the start of their Biblical pursuits?

On my iPad, I use “Bible Hub” because at my age it is easy, and provides many translations, is this enough? Admittedly, it was far better than what I took to school.

Would that be sufficient, or would you suggest something far more robust such as “Logos?”

Perhaps something in between such as “Olive Tree?”

What would you recommend?

Along this thread, those of you who were “a century ago student,” share some of the values of your own education in comparison to that perceived of today.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A Bible college freshman can begin with the excellent e-Sword software. It's a free download, but a very excellent tool with many resources. For the resources, you can get such free gems as the original International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE, or "Is-be). There are other free or cheap software packages out there for the beginner. My goto basic package is Power Bible. I love the English, Greek and Hebrew search function on that.

For the seminary student, a top drawer package like Logos or BibleWorks is necessary. I believe a seminary student can get a special deal on those through his or her seminary. Both of these programs are excellent in the original languages, offering multiple Greek and Hebrew packages, and even having the data from various manuscripts to access.

I also have Bibloi, but it's more of a middle level package. However, it has a great search function for the church fathers, LXX, etc., so I still use it.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A Bible college freshman can begin with the excellent e-Sword software. It's a free download, but a very excellent tool with many resources. For the resources, you can get such free gems as the original International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE, or "Is-be). There are other free or cheap software packages out there for the beginner. My goto basic package is Power Bible. I love the English, Greek and Hebrew search function on that.

For the seminary student, a top drawer package like Logos or BibleWorks is necessary. I believe a seminary student can get a special deal on those through his or her seminary. Both of these programs are excellent in the original languages, offering multiple Greek and Hebrew packages, and even having the data from various manuscripts to access.

I also have Bibloi, but it's more of a middle level package. However, it has a great search function for the church fathers, LXX, etc., so I still use it.

Excellent!

I was very hesitant to put this out in the opening post, but Dallas Theological Seminary actually gives “Logos” to every student for free. .

Well, free in the sense of included in the tuition costs.

Perhaps others offer something free, too
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Excellent!

I was very hesitant to put this out in the opening post, but Dallas Theological Seminary actually gives “Logos” to every student for free. .

Well, free in the sense of included in the tuition costs.

Perhaps others offer something free, too
Actually, our seminary recently got the free offer too, so I downloaded it, but haven't used it much yet. What I do get is a ton of ad emails from Logos about expensive downloads! :confused: That's okay, though. It's a great program.

My son (the PhD) uses a very high end program on his Mac, "Accordance." If you have the moola it is well worth it. Here is the website: Shared via Bible Study with Accordance
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, our seminary recently got the free offer too, so I downloaded it, but haven't used it much yet. What I do get is a ton of ad emails from Logos about expensive downloads! :confused: That's okay, though. It's a great program.

My son (the PhD) uses a very high end program on his Mac, "Accordance." If you have the moola it is well worth it. Here is the website: Shared via Bible Study with Accordance

I like that they start off with what is free.

Which brings up another question.

I understand the need to cover expenses, but is there also an element of merchandising with all the companies.

When does one look at what is offered, the expense, and then conclude it is a worthy investment for the furthering of the gospel?

Sort of like a pastor who (back in the day) accumulated all the much books to display as if it puffed up his standing, when the simplest had more of God’s wisdom then he!

I am all for education and digging tools, as long as they do not result in knowledge that is “puffed up.”
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I like that they start off with what is free.

Which brings up another question.

I understand the need to cover expenses, but is there also an element of merchandising with all the companies.

When does one look at what is offered, the expense, and then conclude it is a worthy investment for the furthering of the gospel?

Sort of like a pastor who (back in the day) accumulated all the much books to display as if it puffed up his standing, when the simplest had more of God’s wisdom then he!

I am all for education and digging tools, as long as they do not result in knowledge that is “puffed up.”
This is where we profs must mentor the students. My son and I have open door policies so that the students can come to us any time and ask for help on resources. This way we are able to tell them what are good resources and unhelpful ones. We even have ways the students can check out resources from our own libraries, and many do so.

The Internet is a fairly new ballgame, and can be daunting to a student trying to write a research paper but uncertain about good sources. We tell them: no anonymous sources; stick with scholars, not websites that can be corrected by anyone (Wikipedia, some of Theopedia, most Blue Letter Bible articles, etc.). We tell them that such sources can give a direction, but are not to be trusted.
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
What would you suggest as the needed software of the beginning college student, and what one needs as a beginning seminary student.

- very basic laptop
- virtually no financial support.​

What would you recommend?
Frankly Logos just wouldn't fit the budget!

-newest SSD computer/laptop
-the higher the price, the better the deal

I've collected books since I started reading - Logos was an obvious choice for me.

I was around when studying the Bible meant a couple of piles of books on the dining room table.
I've passed many of those books on to the church library where they get dusted off every once in a while.
No one, (or at least very few people) dig into old-fashioned dead-tree research material anymore.

But if you look at my desktop I've a few stacks of commentaries along side my laptop to supplement the digital works.
Sometimes a good hardback commentary can be picked up for pennies on the dollar.

Digital is the way to go but frankly you get what you pay for - cheap software offers inferior results
Pay as much as you can reasonably afford.
Look for deals.

Rob
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This is where we profs must mentor the students. My son and I have open door policies so that the students can come to us any time and ask for help on resources. This way we are able to tell them what are good resources and unhelpful ones. We even have ways the students can check out resources from our own libraries, and many do so.

The Internet is a fairly new ballgame, and can be daunting to a student trying to write a research paper but uncertain about good sources. We tell them: no anonymous sources; stick with scholars, not websites that can be corrected by anyone (Wikipedia, some of Theopedia, most Blue Letter Bible articles, etc.). We tell them that such sources can give a direction, but are not to be trusted.

It is true that scholarship is necessary for the student to look in formulating their own views.

The problem with most students is not knowing the history bias or influences of socio/political upon the writings of most scholarship.

it is necessary for the student to grasp the perspective of the scholar as well as the view of the scholar. Not to esteem any but hold all before the statement of the Scripture principles.

For example, at times a reference to the writing of Dietrich Bonhoeffer would be used. Now, that man did write some good, but also not so good. For one to place him as an unquestioned authority or scholar without regarding the influences that impacted his views would actually be unscholarly. So time would be taken to teach discernment - which to me was a far better lesson than any other.

The same could be said of Ryrie, Walvoord, .... excluding none, of any age.

Therefore, I probably wouldn’t be as put off as some with the beginner bringing information that was not “scholarly” but useful as a teaching tool to allow students to engage critical learning skills and build discernment.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Frankly Logos just wouldn't fit the budget!

-newest SSD computer/laptop
-the higher the price, the better the deal

I've collected books since I started reading - Logos was an obvious choice for me.

I was around when studying the Bible meant a couple of piles of books on the dining room table.
I've passed many of those books on to the church library where they get dusted off every once in a while.
No one, (or at least very few people) dig into old-fashioned dead-tree research material anymore.

But if you look at my desktop I've a few stacks of commentaries along side my laptop to supplement the digital works.
Sometimes a good hardback commentary can be picked up for pennies on the dollar.

Digital is the way to go but frankly you get what you pay for - cheap software offers inferior results
Pay as much as you can reasonably afford.
Look for deals.

Rob
I found the same thing happens, few visit the church library.

It is true that a part of the “digging tools” must explore what is both appropriate, what is cost effective, and what is just overpriced and unworthy of stewardship.

It is hoped that this thread might examine the picks and shovels to value the handles, the metal, so that the reader may find what is fitting to their hands (both as beginners in the sandbox or skilled in the quarries) and have the required metal to survive the required job.
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Good.

When will it be in digital form with internal links, word search, and side by side comparison, downloadable as a free app?

:)
It will be in digital form from the start, but only available through Logos software, in Dec. Deacon says. Probably not free. :Coffee
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is true that scholarship is necessary for the student to look in formulating their own views.

The problem with most students is not knowing the history bias or influences of socio/political upon the writings of most scholarship.

it is necessary for the student to grasp the perspective of the scholar as well as the view of the scholar. Not to esteem any but hold all before the statement of the Scripture principles.
I agree with this except that I do esteem some Bible scholars based on 1 Tim. 5:17.

For example, at times a reference to the writing of Dietrich Bonhoeffer would be used. Now, that man did write some good, but also not so good. For one to place him as an unquestioned authority or scholar without regarding the influences that impacted his views would actually be unscholarly. So time would be taken to teach discernment - which to me was a far better lesson than any other.
Agreed. Bonhoeffer has impressed many evangelicals, but he was neo-orthodox.

The same could be said of Ryrie, Walvoord, .... excluding none, of any age.
At least Ryrie and Walvoord were conservative Bible believers.

Therefore, I probably wouldn’t be as put off as some with the beginner bringing information that was not “scholarly” but useful as a teaching tool to allow students to engage critical learning skills and build discernment.
Wisdom and discernment are certainly not limited to the scholar, though many have it--my son in particular. (He just had an article accepted by a British theological journal.)
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A Bible college freshman can begin with the excellent e-Sword software. It's a free download, but a very excellent tool with many resources. For the resources, you can get such free gems as the original International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE, or "Is-be). There are other free or cheap software packages out there for the beginner. My goto basic package is Power Bible. I love the English, Greek and Hebrew search function on that.

For the seminary student, a top drawer package like Logos or BibleWorks is necessary. I believe a seminary student can get a special deal on those through his or her seminary. Both of these programs are excellent in the original languages, offering multiple Greek and Hebrew packages, and even having the data from various manuscripts to access.

I also have Bibloi, but it's more of a middle level package. However, it has a great search function for the church fathers, LXX, etc., so I still use it.


This assumes they are using Windows!
 

evangelist6589

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Frankly Logos just wouldn't fit the budget!

-newest SSD computer/laptop
-the higher the price, the better the deal

I've collected books since I started reading - Logos was an obvious choice for me.

I was around when studying the Bible meant a couple of piles of books on the dining room table.
I've passed many of those books on to the church library where they get dusted off every once in a while.
No one, (or at least very few people) dig into old-fashioned dead-tree research material anymore.

But if you look at my desktop I've a few stacks of commentaries along side my laptop to supplement the digital works.
Sometimes a good hardback commentary can be picked up for pennies on the dollar.

Digital is the way to go but frankly you get what you pay for - cheap software offers inferior results
Pay as much as you can reasonably afford.
Look for deals.

Rob

I agree. It’s why I use my iPad to buy books these days. I have no need for books in print unless they are not available in the iBooks store.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Why? (Doesn't those programs also work on iOS?)
I tried using Ubuntu for a while, but few products work without widows and the wine work around was cumbersome. I understand the latest release is a good bit better.

Logos apparently works with iOS.

Is Logos worth the cost?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I tried using Ubuntu for a while, but few products work without widows and the wine work around was cumbersome. I understand the latest release is a good bit better.

Logos apparently works with iOS.

Is Logos worth the cost?
I would like to have Logos, but for me it is not worth the investment. I have wordsearch and probably about $700 invested (over the years) along with a descent library and digital collection. I just can't justify the cost.

It's a want vs need thing for me.
 
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