SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
And? Jesus is speaking as the God-Man and not as YHWH. there is a big difference
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Disagreements on God.
- Thread starter 37818
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And? Jesus is speaking as the God-Man and not as YHWH. there is a big difference
Dave G
Well-Known Member
There is no difference, as He is both God and man.
I think that if you read the Scriptures carefully, you will see that the Godhead is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
You will also see that the Father is subordinate to no one, while the Son does His Father's will and the Spirit do both the Father's and the Son's will...yet they are in full agreement with each other.
If one tries to reason through it, it will baffle anyone.
Yet, Christians believe what God's word says because it is God speaking, and not men.
Human reasoning becomes moot, as the believer walks by faith and not by sight or their own reasoning.
We live by every word of God ( Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4 ), whether or not it "makes sense";
It is enough that God' says something, because we know that He does not lie.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
in the eternal Godhead? this is IMPOSSIBLE!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Believing God's word is impossible?
I'm sorry to read that.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Do you believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are YHWH
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Yes.
The Godhead is Jehovah God, "I am that I am".
See 1 John 5:7, if your Bible has it.
Really???... Then pray tell me SBG what are you going to do with these scriptures?
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Btw... For those who look for a reigning in the future he's reigning NOW?... Otherwise what's he doing in Heaven Now on the right hand of God, on his throne?... Gathering dust?... Brother Glen
Dave G
Well-Known Member
He's not on His father David's throne ruling from Jerusalem ( Zechariah 2:10-12, Zechariah 8:3-8, Zechariah 8:20-23, Zechariah 14:1-21, Micah 4 and many others ) as of yet.
That's coming soon:
" But in the last days it shall come to pass, [that] the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem." ( Micah 4:1-2 ).
See that, Glen?
The Lord Jesus will establish His throne at Jerusalem...
It will be a sight no one will ever forget, my friend.
Making intercession for His people until the day of His coming again...
" Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us." ( Romans 8:34 ).
" A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." ( Psalms 110:1 ).
Also see Luke 24:42-43, Acts of the Apostles 2:34-35, Hebrews 1:13, Hebrews 10:12-13.
Waiting to come again and rule the nations with a rod of iron ( Revelation 2:27, Revelation 12:5, Revelation 19:15, Isaiah 11 ) just as His Father promised Him.
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SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
so, if you understand what YHWH means, which is in the Hebrew from the root, I AM, The Eternal, Self-Sufficient, Self-Existing, and Unchanging God, then you should know that The Three Persons in the Eternal Godhead, are COETERNAL, COESSENTIAL and COEQUAL. No Person is better, higher, greater, more important, more powerful, etc, etc, than the other Person. The Three are 100% God.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Really???... Then pray tell me SBG what are you going to do with these scriptures?
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Btw... For those who look for a reigning in the future he's reigning NOW?... Otherwise what's he doing in Heaven Now on the right hand of God, on his throne?... Gathering dust?... Brother Glen
Yes borther Glen, really! The passage that you quote is to do with Jesus' Mediatorial Reign, which concludes when He Returns. There are some, I am not sure if you are one of them, who are mistaken by thinking that there is an eternal "subordination" within the Godhead of Persons, and that the Father, as Father, is preeminent among the Three. They also assume that it is the Father Who is the ultimate King, and Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are "secondary". This is theological codswallop!
Firstlty, while on earth, and in a sense "subordinate" to the Father, when He says that the Father is "greater" than Himself (John 14:28); yet, during this time, Jesus says this in John's Gospel, "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him" (5:23). Where the Greek for "just as", is, "in the same way, equally". Here, while walking on earth, and "subordinate" to the Father, Jesus the God-Man demands "EQUAL Honor" to the Father, not at some later time, but then!
Secondly, again while on earth, Jesus says that He has the same Power, Authority and Protection, to the Father. In John chapter 10, He says, "28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”.
Thridly, again as the God-Man, and having told the devil that Worship is for God, accepts Worship Himself, as in Matthew 14:33, 28:17, etc
Fourthly, again while on earth, as the God-Man, Jesus claims for Himself the Name of God, YHWH, when He responds to the Jews in John 8:58, "before Abraham came into existence, I AM", which the Jews understood as the Divine Awesome Name as in Exodus 3:14, which is why they wanted to murder Jesus, as they considered these words as blasphemy.
Fifthly, in Revelation 11:15, we read, "Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” "our Lord" here is God the Father, and we also have "Jesus Christ", The Two Persons in the Trinity. And yet John writes, "βασιλευσει", which is in the singular number, "He shall Reigh", which shows the Joint-Reign of both the Father and Jesus Christ. Something impossible if Jesus Christ was "subordinate" to the Father! This is also seen in chapter 22:1, "And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb", where we have the singular, "του θρονου" (the Throne), which shows a Joint-Reign of both the Father and Jesus Christ.
All of this is very clear, that even though Jesus Christ was "subordinate" to the Father, while on earth, as He came as The Servant. Yet, because of the fact that Jesus Christ IS Eternally YHWH, He could never cease to be Almighty God, 100% COEQUAL to the Father and Holy Spirit.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ is the trinity, the eternal God in the flesh. The Son is always God begotten of the Father. Do you think the Word turned into the Son at the incarnation? If so, you cause a change in God that scripture does not support.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
this is NOT taught anywhere in the 66 Books of the Holy Bible. it is the heresy that came from Origen in the 3rd century
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The Father is YHWH, the Son is YHWH, the Holy Spirit is YHWH. This Name by defination is, "self-existent, eternal and unchanging", which applies tom the Three Persons in the Holy Trinity, EQUALLY.
37818
Well-Known Member
Yeah. The hard J is now understood not to be correct. The KJV used that transliteration some seven times. The ASV through out the OT.
37818
Well-Known Member
The Person Jesus Christ is not the Trinity. What Biblical bases do you have for the notion "The Son is always God begotten of the Father?"
God the Father is Not God the Son, nor the Holy Spirit, as ALL 3 are equally God!
Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit!
All 3 are God, but not all the same Person!
God is Spirit in essence, and the Second person of the Trinity assumed on human flesh and nature to dwell among us!
He is eternally with the Father, and is just as much God as the Father is!