Discerning How Old The Earth & Universe Is?

[Hark]

Some may say that God would not be deceptive about how old everything really is, thus alluding to how we can measure how old the earth is by the dating methods & how old the universe is by measuring the speed of light, but there is a problem. The dating methods we have are flawed such as living mollusks have been carbon dated as 2,300 years old dead. The same frozen wooly mammoth with 3 vastly different carbon dated results at the head, torso, & buttock should be enough to say our dating methods are unreliable, period.

So what about the speed of light? When God created the heavens & the lights thereof to govern the earth that day, that means He filled in the gap from the sources of those lights with that light to start governing the earth that day.

Were Adam & Eve babies? No. They were adults.

Did all the plants & trees started from a seed? No. There were full grown plants & trees bearing seeds & fruits that day they were created.

Then we have the first Genesis creation account when the first day, light was created to signify the creation of the first day as there was evening & morning the first day; hence no day before that one. Time has begun; this is very the beginning.

Scriptures had existed without numbered chapters & verses so the topic of Genesis 1:1 actually ended in Genesis 2:3. Genesis 2:4 is the beginning of another topic of where all the generations of mankind had come from and so this is a rehash of what had happened on the sixth day but in more detail which ends after the fall of man & the excommunication out of the Garden of Eden in Genesis 3:24; do note Genesis 3:20 for where all of mankind had come from.

Anyone claiming God to be deceptive in the nature of His creation should recognize maturity was also in His acts of creation in setting everything up to run & have knowledge on how to care for the young.

The universe may not revolve around the earth, but the creation of everything was. Take His words as true.

 

[Scott Downey]

We had day and night before the sun and moon were made.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

 

[Hark]

We had day and night before the sun and moon were made.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Correct since the sun & the moon & the lights from them to govern the earth that fourth day was created. That was when the heavens were created in Genesis 1:14-19

Genesis 1:1 is the topic for why the following verses are about how that first verse had happened.

Genesis 1:2-5 was God creating the first day as there was evening, & morning the first day; hence no day before that one so truly the very beginning of creation was the first day created.

Since the original scripture did not have numbered chapters or verses, the first account of creation ended at Genesis 2:3 whereby another topic began in Genesis 2:4 regarding the generations of mankind from where they had come from, which is the rehashing of the creation account for creation of man & woman on the sixth day but in more detail.

We can know that this is a rehashing of the 6th day by noting that condition of the earth for why there is a mist watering the whole earth because there was no man to till the ground yet in Genesis 2:5

When believers read the scripture without reading anything else into them but by relying on wisdom from the Lord, they can discern with Him the meaning of His words to understand them for why there is maturity in His creation in setting up a system ready to go after creation week when He finally rested on the 7th day from all His acts of creation per Genesis 2:1-3.

 

[Scott Downey]

Entire creation account goes against what every science book teaches. They also teach evolution, see no need for God in either case for science. Just random occurrences.
People are made in the images of animals according to them, certainly no life after death for them is needed by an impersonal universe. Which means there wont be a divine judgement day coming, all of that is what they believe,

2 Peter 2:12
Depravity of False Teachers
But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

So God compares them to natural brute beasts then.

 

[Hark]

Entire creation account goes against what every science book teaches. They also teach evolution, see no need for God in either case for science. Just random occurrences.
People are made in the images of animals according to them, certainly no life after death for them is needed by an impersonal universe. Which means there wont be a divine judgement day coming, all of that is what they believe,

2 Peter 2:12
Depravity of False Teachers
But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,

So God compares them to natural brute beasts then.

There is real science as to what can be observed & proven which macroevolution never is observed nor can be proven, and there is false science which is what the theory of evolution is. The coined the phrase microevolution from the Law of Biogenesis to make macroevolution believable, but only Jesus can wake believers up to the bait & switch con game that is going on in that false science today.

Often times than not, evolutionists & teachers will argue when stumped that believers have to learn science to understand what they are talking about ( hence inferring to learning about the evolution theory ) but yet they cannot teach us? So this overuse deflection should inform the believes that learning more about false science isn't going to change the fact that it is false science.

Granted that false science is in every field of science & so Christian scientists has to rely on Jesus for discernment there too.

 

[Scott Downey]

There is real science as to what can be observed & proven which macroevolution never is observed nor can be proven, and there is false science which is what the theory of evolution is. The coined the phrase microevolution from the Law of Biogenesis to make macroevolution believable, but only Jesus can wake believers up to the bait & switch con game that is going on in that false science today.

Often times than not, evolutionists & teachers will argue when stumped that believers have to learn science to understand what they are talking about ( hence inferring to learning about the evolution theory ) but yet they cannot teach us? So this overuse deflection should inform the believes that learning more about false science isn't going to change the fact that it is false science.

Granted that false science is in every field of science & so Christian scientists has to rely on Jesus for discernment there too.

We can have false teachers who promote doctrines of demons, and those teachings are not necessarily talking about bible verses, but they will also twist scriptures. Like teaching evolution, is a doctrine of demons, so they will twist scripture to says days are eons or ages of millions-billions of years when asked about Genesis 1.

A false teacher wont be born again. People who are born again, God keeps them in the faith, Christ said HE knows them and they know Him, so they follow Him, there is a living relationship between them.
False teachers twist the 'rest of the scriptures', they twist the apostles teachings as they are opponents who are captured by the devil to do his will.
Peter says they are destroyed, which means they are not saved people.

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[Hark]

We can have false teachers who promote doctrines of demons, and those teachings are not necessarily talking about bible verses, but they will also twist scriptures. Like teaching evolution, is a doctrine of demons, so they will twist scripture to says days are eons or ages of millions-billions of years when asked about Genesis 1.

A false teacher wont be born again. People who are born again, God keeps them in the faith, Christ said HE knows them and they know Him, so they follow Him, there is a living relationship between them.
False teachers twist the 'rest of the scriptures', they twist the apostles teachings as they are opponents who are captured by the devil to do his will.
Peter says they are destroyed, which means they are not saved people.

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

But what is that destruction spoken of by Peter?

We see in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 that if any one defiles the temple of God which is our physical bodies per 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 , that will be destroyed per 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and yet the spirit is still saved per 1 Corinthians 3:15 as every man's work on that foundation will be judged in that day ( 1 Corinthians 3:13 ) when God judges the House of God first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) at the rapture event.

If we look at the prophesied failing away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 before that event in the great tribulation about the revealing of the son of perdition in that third Temple, and how that iniquity that will cause the falling away from the faith was already at work in Paul's day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7, note how they will be "damned" for not having received the love of the truth for why God permitted strong delusions on erring saved believers for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after signs in the flesh per 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Note how Paul reminded believers about this tradition taught of us to reprove the iniquity mentioned prior by reminding when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel per 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

Now note how Paul addresses those falling away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 & yet Paul says they are not to be treated as the enemy, but admonish as brothers still when withdrawing from them per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

So you are left wondering how can they still be brothers after having gone astray like that? We look to 2 Timothy 2:10-13 on how those who deny Him, they will be denied by Him at the rapture event for being workers of iniquity per Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 3:24-30 & how even in spite of that, former believers are still saved because He still abides as 2 Timothy 2:13 testify.

We see an example of how believes have gone astray in verse 18 of 2 Timothy 2:18-21 but nevertheless, that foundation is still there & that seal of adoption is not going anywhere ( Ephesians 4:30 ) for why these unrepentant brothers & former believers are still called to depart from iniquity or else be "damned" as vessels unto dishonor in His House but still in His House. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House; the left behind saints & not just the new believers after the rapture. So those left behind will be judged with death as warned in Revelation 2:18-25 as it is their physical bodies that is being destroyed & that damnation is they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House once the doors to the Marriage Supper in Heaven is shut..

Note how those left behind to have their portions with unbelievers are still called His servants for how they will be judged by stripes per the measure of knowledge they had for not being ready in Luke 12:40-49

So we cannot judge any professing believer nor false prophets representing Jesus as not saved, but we can judge what is false in according to His words in the hope that God is peradventuring to recover some from the snare of the devil per 2 Timothy 2:24-26 so that they too may inherit the eternal glory that comes with our salvation & that is to be a vessel unto honor in His House by the grace of God & His help. 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25 Amen..

 

[Scott Downey]

But what is that destruction spoken of by Peter?

We see in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 that if any one defiles the temple of God which is our physical bodies per 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 , that will be destroyed per 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and yet the spirit is still saved per 1 Corinthians 3:15 as every man's work on that foundation will be judged in that day ( 1 Corinthians 3:13 ) when God judges the House of God first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) at the rapture event.

If we look at the prophesied failing away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 before that event in the great tribulation about the revealing of the son of perdition in that third Temple, and how that iniquity that will cause the falling away from the faith was already at work in Paul's day per 2 Thessalonians 2:7, note how they will be "damned" for not having received the love of the truth for why God permitted strong delusions on erring saved believers for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after signs in the flesh per 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.

Note how Paul reminded believers about this tradition taught of us to reprove the iniquity mentioned prior by reminding when we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel per 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

Now note how Paul addresses those falling away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 & yet Paul says they are not to be treated as the enemy, but admonish as brothers still when withdrawing from them per 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

So you are left wondering how can they still be brothers after having gone astray like that? We look to 2 Timothy 2:10-13 on how those who deny Him, they will be denied by Him at the rapture event for being workers of iniquity per Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 3:24-30 & how even in spite of that, former believers are still saved because He still abides as 2 Timothy 2:13 testify.

We see an example of how believes have gone astray in verse 18 of 2 Timothy 2:18-21 but nevertheless, that foundation is still there & that seal of adoption is not going anywhere ( Ephesians 4:30 ) for why these unrepentant brothers & former believers are still called to depart from iniquity or else be "damned" as vessels unto dishonor in His House but still in His House. This is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House; the left behind saints & not just the new believers after the rapture. So those left behind will be judged with death as warned in Revelation 2:18-25 as it is their physical bodies that is being destroyed & that damnation is they can never be that vessel unto honor in His House once the doors to the Marriage Supper in Heaven is shut..

Note how those left behind to have their portions with unbelievers are still called His servants for how they will be judged by stripes per the measure of knowledge they had for not being ready in Luke 12:40-49

So we cannot judge any professing believer nor false prophets representing Jesus as not saved, but we can judge what is false in according to His words in the hope that God is peradventuring to recover some from the snare of the devil per 2 Timothy 2:24-26 so that they too may inherit the eternal glory that comes with our salvation & that is to be a vessel unto honor in His House by the grace of God & His help. 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25 Amen..

They are destroyed unless they are born again. Born again people will not be twisting 'the rest of the scriptures' and they wont be false teachers.
It says 'to their own destruction', this is not someone else of the world destroying a faithful person.

Read in context , Peter is calling these scripture twisters, the WICKED, and the wicked have no peace from God.

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; (those twisting the scriptures)
18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (Peter is not talking about those wicked growing in grace and knowledge of Christ)

 

[Hark]

They are destroyed unless they are born again. Born again people will not be twisting 'the rest of the scriptures' and they wont be false teachers.
It says 'to their own destruction', this is not someone else of the world destroying a faithful person.

Read in context , Peter is calling these scripture twisters, the WICKED, and the wicked have no peace from God.

15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; (those twisting the scriptures)
18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (Peter is not talking about those wicked growing in grace and knowledge of Christ)

But are we rightly dividing the word of truth with the rest of scripture to understand what is meant?

How can there be vessels unto dishonor in His House with the vessels unto honor? 2 Timothy 2:20

How is it that by the call to depart from iniquity includes former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-19?

And how is it that by departing from iniquity is how one is a vessel unto honor in His House per 2 Timothy 2:21?

That means the vessels unto dishonor that are in His House are the ones that did not depart from iniquity. So the warning you see are the ones warning saved but unrepentant believers & former believers to repent or be destroyed by physical death & damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected after the great tribulation; Revelation 2:18-25 & Revelation 7:13-17 It is like the prodigal son who lost his first inheritance to wild living; he can never get it back, but he is still son.

That is why Peter is warning believers to endure & be ready to be saved from what is coming on the earth per 2 Peter 3:1-15

 

[Scott Downey]

But are we rightly dividing the word of truth with the rest of scripture to understand what is meant?

How can there be vessels unto dishonor in His House with the vessels unto honor? 2 Timothy 2:20

How is it that by the call to depart from iniquity includes former believers in 2 Timothy 2:18-19?

And how is it that by departing from iniquity is how one is a vessel unto honor in His House per 2 Timothy 2:21?

That means the vessels unto dishonor that are in His House are the ones that did not depart from iniquity. So the warning you see are the ones warning saved but unrepentant believers & former believers to repent or be destroyed by physical death & damned as vessels unto dishonor in His House to be resurrected after the great tribulation; Revelation 2:18-25 & Revelation 7:13-17 It is like the prodigal son who lost his first inheritance to wild living; he can never get it back, but he is still son.

That is why Peter is warning believers to endure & be ready to be saved from what is coming on the earth per 2 Peter 3:1-15

Peter in that chapter and book uses that same word 'destruction' and if you read you will see this is not any kind of salvation.

1. 2 Peter 2:1
   Destructive Doctrines
   But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. 2 Peter 2:3
   By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. 2 Peter 2:6
   and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. 2 Peter 3:16
   as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[Hark]

Peter in that chapter and book uses that same word 'destruction' and if you read you will see this is not any kind of salvation.

1. 2 Peter 2:1
   Destructive Doctrines
   But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. 2 Peter 2:3
   By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. 2 Peter 2:6
   and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. 2 Peter 3:16
   as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Still reading it in regards to what is coming on the earth which physical death is the end result of their destruction.

How do you apply 1 Corinthians 3:10-17? 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 is about their physical bodies being destroyed & yet in 1 Corinthians 3:15, their spirits are still saved in that day when the fire shall declare it in 1 Corinthians 3:13. I would apply that to the fiery destruction that Peter is saying is coming on the earth. How would you apply that scriptural reference of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17?

 

[Scott Downey]

Still reading it in regards to what is coming on the earth which physical death is the end result of their destruction.

How do you apply 1 Corinthians 3:10-17? 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 is about their physical bodies being destroyed & yet in 1 Corinthians 3:15, their spirits are still saved in that day when the fire shall declare it in 1 Corinthians 3:13. I would apply that to the fiery destruction that Peter is saying is coming on the earth. How would you apply that scriptural reference of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17?

obviously those people are saved mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3 earlier in the chapter, while these others in Peter are not (those who are false brethren). There is such a thing as false brethren.

v15, these are saved
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Paul though in v17 is not talking of the same people as v15. The earlier verses are of people who build on the foundation improperly, but they are not destroying the temple of God, someone else is destroying them in v17.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

God will not destroy him who is joined to Him as one spirit with Him. Paul is talking of a different eternal destruction in v17, that someone does to the temple of God which you are as a saved person, the person destroying you will be destroyed, not the person's spirit joined as one with Him.

 

[Hark]

obviously those people are saved mentioned in 1 Corinthians 3 earlier in the chapter, while these others in Peter are not (those who are false brethren). There is such a thing as false brethren.

v15, these are saved
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Paul though in v17 is not talking of the same people as v15. The earlier verses are of people who build on the foundation improperly, but they are not destroying the temple of God, someone else is destroying them in v17.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

God will not destroy him who is joined to Him as one spirit with Him. Paul is talking of a different eternal destruction in v17, that someone does to the temple of God which you are as a saved person, the person destroying you will be destroyed, not the person's spirit joined as one with Him.

Please discern again with Him. You overlooked something.

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Paul is addressing saved believers. No one cannot defile the temple of God unless they are saved.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. KJV

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. KJV

 

[Scott Downey]

Please discern again with Him. You overlooked something.

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Paul is addressing saved believers. No one cannot defile the temple of God unless they are saved.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. KJV

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. KJV

Paul is telling the Corinthians they will be saved, even if they lose all rewards at the judgement seat of Christ, their spirit remains saved.

He then goes on to say those who defile them, where the Spirit indwells, if they be defiled by an outside agency, God will destroy their defilers as that is an attack on God's Holy Spirit as they ARE the temple of the Holy Spirit where God lives inside of them.

Those who are defiling 'God's temple' in 1 Cor 3, is not the believers, not the spirit of the justified.

15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
these above here == not destroyed
-------------------------------------------------------------------
these below here == destroyed

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Example here in Christ's words of this very thing
Matthew 18,
6 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!

What I am describing here is not a complicated thing to understand.

 

[Hark]

Paul is telling the Corinthians they will be saved, even if they lose all rewards at the judgement seat of Christ, their spirit remains saved.

He then goes on to say those who defile them, where the Spirit indwells, if they be defiled by an outside agency, God will destroy their defilers as that is an attack on God's Holy Spirit as they ARE the temple of the Holy Spirit where God lives inside of them.

Those who are defiling 'God's temple' in 1 Cor 3, is not the believers, not the spirit of the justified.

15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
these above here == not destroyed
-------------------------------------------------------------------
these below here == destroyed

17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

Example here in Christ's words of this very thing
Matthew 18,
6 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!

What I am describing here is not a complicated thing to understand.

If I understand you correctly, you are putting the destruction on those who defile others by leading them astray, but 1 Corinthians 3:10 addresses the believer in how he builds on that foundation for why he would get the rewards or the lack thereof in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. If you consider that you reject some false teachings, then how can the false teacher be blamed for what is not on that foundation? And yet if a false teaching is accepted on that foundation by the believer, the believer gets the punishment unless repented before the Bridegroom comes.

It is the believer that are responsible for what is on that foundation for why they should take heed. 1 Corinthians 3:17 is still addressing the saved believer for the repercussion of having their temple destroyed which is a physical death for why God will judge His people & the churches with death in according to their works per Revelation 2:20-23

But yes, to your other reference for leading a child astray, false prophets & false teachers will be punished even more than the unrepentant saved believer, but they can still be saved as per 1 Corinthians 3:15 since all their works can be burned up, but that foundation remains & that seal of adoption is not going away per Ephesians 4:30 for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House per 2 Timothy 2:18-21 note verse 20.

 

[Scott Downey]

If I understand you correctly, you are putting the destruction on those who defile others by leading them astray, but 1 Corinthians 3:10 addresses the believer in how he builds on that foundation for why he would get the rewards or the lack thereof in 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. If you consider that you reject some false teachings, then how can the false teacher be blamed for what is not on that foundation? And yet if a false teaching is accepted on that foundation by the believer, the believer gets the punishment unless repented before the Bridegroom comes.

It is the believer that are responsible for what is on that foundation for why they should take heed. 1 Corinthians 3:17 is still addressing the saved believer for the repercussion of having their temple destroyed which is a physical death for why God will judge His people & the churches with death in according to their works per Revelation 2:20-23

But yes, to your other reference for leading a child astray, false prophets & false teachers will be punished even more than the unrepentant saved believer, but they can still be saved as per 1 Corinthians 3:15 since all their works can be burned up, but that foundation remains & that seal of adoption is not going away per Ephesians 4:30 for why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House per 2 Timothy 2:18-21 note verse 20.

Peter says

2 Peter 2:1
Destructive Doctrines
But there were also false prophets among the people, (IN THE GREAT HOUSE) even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Reference this in v14 and onward, the 'HOUSE' here is referring to the Church on Earth, not of those in heaven.
Inside this HOUSE are false prophets and false teachers, 'among the people', and they will be destroyed, meaning they will NOT be in the kingdom of God.
They promote 'HERESIES' and heresies are a work of the flesh, people who practice the works of the flesh are not going to be with the Lord, their end is eternal destruction.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
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14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus (UNSAVED) are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”(By implication God also knows those who are not His)

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
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These people dont know the Truth. showing they dont Know God.

Some for Honor, some for dishonor,
Rev 20 says you must overcome to be worthy to have eternal life, people who are for dishonor are not going to be worthy of the 'Tree of Life' which is Christ.

These following are for Honor, only they enter into LIFE into the City with God and Christ.
Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

These following for Dishonor, they are denied entry into the City, there part is in the Lake of Fire.
Revelation 22:15
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
If your on the outside that means away from God and Christ, where is weeping, teeth, gnashing, everlasting darkness and fire and destruction

1 Thessalonians 2
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,

 

[Hark]

Peter says

2 Peter 2:1
Destructive Doctrines
But there were also false prophets among the people, (IN THE GREAT HOUSE) even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Reference this in v14 and onward, the 'HOUSE' here is referring to the Church on Earth, not of those in heaven.
Inside this HOUSE are false prophets and false teachers, 'among the people', and they will be destroyed, meaning they will NOT be in the kingdom of God.
They promote 'HERESIES' and heresies are a work of the flesh, people who practice the works of the flesh are not going to be with the Lord, their end is eternal destruction.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
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14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus (UNSAVED) are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”(By implication God also knows those who are not His)

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These people dont know the Truth. showing they dont Know God.

Some for Honor, some for dishonor,
Rev 20 says you must overcome to be worthy to have eternal life, people who are for dishonor are not going to be worthy of the 'Tree of Life' which is Christ.

These following are for Honor, only they enter into LIFE into the City with God and Christ.
Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

These following for Dishonor, they are denied entry into the City, there part is in the Lake of Fire.
Revelation 22:15
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
If your on the outside that means away from God and Christ, where is weeping, teeth, gnashing, everlasting darkness and fire and destruction

1 Thessalonians 2
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

11 Therefore we also pray always for you that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness and the work of faith with power,

I am reading the scripture as testifying for why unrepentant saved believers & former believers are to repent in 2 Timothy 2:18-21. because He still abides in former believers even if after they are denied by Him in this faithful saying per 2 Timothy 2:10-13

That is why it is important that they may also obtain the eternal glory that comes with our salvation and that is to be that vessel unto honor in His House by calling them to repent. If they do not repent with His help by the time the Bridegroom comes, then they are excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper In Heaven, cut off, cast into the bed of the great tribulation to have their physical bodies destroyed but the spirits will be with the Lord until after the great tribulation when they will be resurrected to serve the King of kings on earth.

If saved believers want to avoid the damnation of being that vessel unto dishonor in His House, they should look to Jesus Christ for help to discern the weights & sins as well as lay aside every weight & sin for the high prize of our calling which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House. Once the door to the Marriage supper is shut, no one can be a part of that firstfruits of the resurrection. They would be akin to the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for a meal, & then poor & destitute to return Home to find that he is still son because that foundation remains & seal of adoption cannot go away, even though all his works are burned up on that foundation which can never be removed & he suffers loss.

 

[Scott Downey]

I am reading the scripture as testifying for why unrepentant saved believers & former believers are to repent in 2 Timothy 2:18-21. because He still abides in former believers even if after they are denied by Him in this faithful saying per 2 Timothy 2:10-13

That is why it is important that they may also obtain the eternal glory that comes with our salvation and that is to be that vessel unto honor in His House by calling them to repent. If they do not repent with His help by the time the Bridegroom comes, then they are excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper In Heaven, cut off, cast into the bed of the great tribulation to have their physical bodies destroyed but the spirits will be with the Lord until after the great tribulation when they will be resurrected to serve the King of kings on earth.

If saved believers want to avoid the damnation of being that vessel unto dishonor in His House, they should look to Jesus Christ for help to discern the weights & sins as well as lay aside every weight & sin for the high prize of our calling which is to be that vessel unto honor in His House. Once the door to the Marriage supper is shut, no one can be a part of that firstfruits of the resurrection. They would be akin to the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for a meal, & then poor & destitute to return Home to find that he is still son because that foundation remains & seal of adoption cannot go away, even though all his works are burned up on that foundation which can never be removed & he suffers loss.

The phrase in Timothy goes back to what Christ says
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: (Damned)

If you deny Him before men, your not a saved person as your rejecting Christ.
Now Peter denied Christ 3 times, BUT, Christ said He had prayed for Peter and when Peter turned back to Him, he was to strengthen his brothers in the faith.
But if Peter had not had Christ praying for him, he would not have been saved.
This does not have to do with an idea that eternal salvation can be lost, as God is in charge of your life, if His plan for you is to be saved, you will be saved, but this is stating facts, and you don't lose a salvation you never had.

Matthew 10:32-34
Confess Christ Before Men
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. (Saved)
33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. (Damned)


Luke 9:25-26
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.

 

[Hark]

The phrase in Timothy goes back to what Christ says
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: (Damned)

If you deny Him before men, your not a saved person as your rejecting Christ.
Now Peter denied Christ 3 times, BUT, Christ said He had prayed for Peter and when Peter turned back to Him, he was to strengthen his brothers in the faith.
But if Peter had not had Christ praying for him, he would not have been saved.
This does not have to do with an idea that eternal salvation can be lost, as God is in charge of your life, if His plan for you is to be saved, you will be saved, but this is stating facts, and you don't lose a salvation you never had.

Matthew 10:32-34
Confess Christ Before Men
32 “Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. (Saved)
33 But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. (Damned)


Luke 9:25-26
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?
26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.

As a clarification about how we got around to discussing this is how you seem to condemn those saved believers that may be teaching the evolution theory is true.

When we read Matthew 7:21-23, some believers think those professing believer were never saved. Not so. You may find this reference as applying to those that teach the evolution theory as true when they are just fables in science ; Titus 1:13-16

The point here is that any work of iniquity ( heresy being listed as a work of the flesh ) on that foundation that defiles the Temple of God is the same as verbally denying Him. That is why Paul goes on to explain about former believers that should happen to have their faith overthrown by some lie.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Paul goes on to give an example of believers that had their faith overthrown & how it was overthrown, but he points out that foundation still remains as well as that seal for why he said "nevertheless" for why He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

The point is to acknowledge we are saved without works but what we build on that foundation will be judged when the Bridegroom comes & that judgment of being destroyed & damned is applied to those unrepentant saints left behind when after the great tribulation, they will be resurrected in becoming a vessel unto dishonor in His House.

 

[37818]

New We had day and night before the sun and moon were made.

That is an interpretation assuming the Sun and Moon were not made unil they could be seen on the fourth day. On the fourth day God made them to be lights in the sky. Not the same thing as creating the Sun and Moon. Which I interpret the Sun was created on the first day when God said, "Let there be light.