Disclosure

"Hiding salaries" is not happening in the preocedures I outlined above.

Also...keep in mind, this is not only an issue for the pastor. If you have secretaries, custodians, associates, etc., this procedure is also in place with their salaries as well.

And repeating again...the information is available to members. They do get to see it and vote on it.

 

I agree with your method. What I think is wrong is where no one in the congregation (membership) knows these things. They should.

 

Quit playing cute with words. When I give to the Lord I am giving as a steward. Good stewards know how their money is being spent. And they have a right to know what their pastor makes.

I repeat ... any pastor who is unwilling to have his income freely known by the membership of his church ought to be dismissed. End of story. There is only ONE reason. He is paid too much. An underpaid pastor would not hide his income. Only an overpaid one. You are waaaaaay off target in this one, both scripturally and morally.

It's called accountability, and pastors should be accountable to their people in the matter of their income as well as their doctrine.

 

Yes they do.

They vote on specific salary figures. They are discussed when the budget is proposed, and it is voted upon by members.

They just aren't printed in the summary each month.

However, the members at any time can come and view these numbers.


I'm not following how you think they don't know...

 

Good pastors will give every reason to trust them.

Businesses can find out the income of many other businesses they compete with. When I was in business we did that sometimes. Why should a church be less accountable than a business.

I would never have any problem with showing my W2. Anyone who has employed others and been in business will have a good idea of what people make.

I would rather see accountability in terms of spiritual growth in spiritual reproduction in disciples rather than just than finances. Mature disciples give. The immature may give but not reproduce. The immature should never have a voice in the spiritual ministries of a church.

 

I made 2 statements. The first was in agreement with what you said. The second was a general statement of a position that I disagree with - not yours specifically. Hope that clears it up.

 

An excellent point that is not brought up nearly enough in our churches today. I fully agree.

 

Got it. Thanks! :thumbs:

 

recent experience was that the treasurer with an issue published a summary of my compensation including the rental value of the parsonage, and the local phone bill (including the amount i pay but not deductin it from bill total.) electricity and heat cost (which is lp tank for both church and parsonage but did not show the portion church uses.)

She concluded that I am compensated 1400 monthly for all of 1 hour weekly of work. 1 person asked about the numbers because it did not reflect the numbers on the monthly statement. My reimbursment was not accounted for and the gas the church building was not deducted.

I only commented that they either thought i was terrible or miraculous to preach and teach with no preparation time and visit using no time or fuel.

I have no problem having my compensation package disclosed in our monthly financial statement as long as it is shown honestly and completely including the portion i reimburse the church. It can be abused by somebody with an axe to grind. I have been praying for this 1 couple who has developped a problem with me. God will resolve this conflict and I am working to reconcile the differences.

 

j-barner, there will always be someone in the church who has a beef with the pastor. Sometimes, if they can't find a beef, they will create it. I developed very broad shoulders and a thick skull to survive ministry into retirement. Those who truly follow the Lord and work in the church will always know the difference.

Cheers, and bless,

Jim

 

Didn't see it before, sorry.

We don't publish the individual staff salaries or benefits packages. We have a large staff and, believe me, the personnel line on our budget is pretty hefty.

Absolutely. This is what we do. We check their membership and have a question or two for them. We are happy to let members see, but do want to make sure it isn't rumor mongering.

As a note with this. We publish an abridged copy of our budget once a year. We have a place where members can go and see a more itemized budget (both online, secured, and in person.) It is a better way to manage our process. We have a core leadership meeting 4 times a year. Usually the last one we talk budget. We invite our members (we do covenant membership) who have attended regularly. They can ask any question they want.

Thanks for asking.

To add: I can't underscore the point about how you, as a parishioner, don't pay your pastor. You don't. You give to the church. Even more so in Baptist churches where the pastor is considered (for tax reasons) an independent contractor the parishioners don't pay their pastor. It is an important point theologically and methodologically.