Discord

[psalms109:31]

Well, I don't quite see that Scripture the way you do. And the true Calvinist doesn't see that the way you do either. I see that Scripture as stating that "whosoever believes in Him" will not perish precisely because he has eternal life, which is why he believes. You see it, (correct me if I am wrong) as meaning one can only not perish if one believes because only then, if he believes, can he have eternal life.

In that instance in the gospel whosoever can believe an that whosoever has eternal. The Gospel gives men two road to believe in Jesus that leads to life or not and be condemned.

And again, the tension in the Scripture is not caused by the Scripture itself but by the way men interpret the Scripture. For example, in the Scripture you cited there is much debate amongst Calvinists and Arminians.

The Arminians insist that God wants ALL men (as in mankind in totality) to be saved. The Calvinist usually says that ALL men does not mean all mankind in totality but all men as in irregardless of race, creed, tongue, social class, and so on.

But the real question is : saved from WHAT ?

Men will always put limits on the truth , but all is all, untill men can believe God and trust in Him there will always be discord. God want all men to be saved from condemnation, because as the scripture says He loved the world that He sent His Son. Then the Gospel brings forth the two roads.

If saved from the wrath of God, didn't Jesus Christ accomplish that for those whom the Father gave Him ? If this desire of God is for the eternal salvation of all men, then didn't He himself cause Daniel to quote Nebuchadnezzar as saying that He is a God who does whatsoever he desires in the army of heaven and earth ?

The Father has given to Jesus the meek and the humble who trust in the name of the Lord. That is why God has hidden the truth from the wise and the learned and revealed it to little children.

 

[Rippon]

B-bird , you said that "Calvinists go on like Calvin is ____ _____ incarnate." That is repulsive . You said about the same thing about a week or so before . I cringed -- mainly for your lessened sense of propriety . You must know that your expressed viewpoint is deeply offensive and actually blasphemous . Why do you persist with such gross characteristics ?

Rather than taking such nasty and shameful pot shots you should try a different tactic . Can you please explain why you take exception to a specific statement of his or an exegesis of a verse he explained instead ? If you are not familiar with Calvin's works , then wait until you do know to make a critical assessment . [ Addition : Make sure anything you have reservations about in Calvin's works would be agreeable to Reformed Baptists . There is no use in arguing against his stance regarding infant baptism for example .]

Ps. : Yes , the Lord has indeed hidden saving truths from some ( the reprobates ) , and revealed them to others ( the elect ) .

 

[psalms109:31]

Ps. : Yes , the Lord has indeed hidden saving truths from some ( the reprobates ) , and revealed them to others ( the elect ) .

I praise God that He has shown the truth to the little children who are humble and meek who trust in the name of the Lord and not to the arrogant who call themselves the elect of God who have chosen themselves.

 

[psalms109:31]

scripture

Romans 11:
19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Making One's Calling and Election Sure
2 Peter 1:
3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Rippon]

It has been the good pleasure of the Father to reveal Himself to those of His choosing . Jesus is also called the One who gives life to those of His choosing .

Every Christian is elect , I hope you know that . Are you saying that you are not willing to call yourself elect ? Have you not made your calling and election sure ? If we are cautioned to verify our state -- to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith --- why do you call this arrogant ? Shouldn't we do what the Scripture enjoins ?

Roman Catholics often have challenged me by saying it has been presumptuous for me to say that I am saved . Yet if I am saved , I am elect . The Bible tells us that we may know that we have eternal life . I see no discernable distinction between what my Roman Catholic friends have said and your understanding of the issues involved with our discussion .

We do not choose the Lord on our own accord . We have no such power . The Lord draws His own to Himself .

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It has been the good pleasure of the Father to reveal Himself to those of His choosing . Jesus is also called the One who gives life to those of His choosing .

Every Christian is elect , I hope you know that . Are you saying that you are not willing to call yourself elect ? Have you not made your calling and election sure ? If we are cautioned to verify our state -- to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith --- why do you call this arrogant ? Shouldn't we do what the Scripture enjoins ?

Roman Catholics often have challenged me by saying it has been presumptuous for me to say that I am saved . Yet if I am saved , I am elect . The Bible tells us that we may know that we have eternal life . I see no discernable distinction between what my Roman Catholic friends have said and your understanding of the issues involved with our discussion .

We do not choose the Lord on our own accord . We have no such power . The Lord draws His own to Himself .

The Holy Spirit of God exhorted us to know God's choice of us.

"Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God." 1 Thess 1:4

My brother, I pray you rejoice in your election, knowing you are beloved of the Lord. It is such a source of great comfort and peace to me. I pray it is to you as well. Let those who despise us, despise us.

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

It is not mine to judge who is meek and humble or arrogant. For anyone that thinks they are the elect of God who does not trust in Jesus, now that would be arrogance

Hebrews 3:
Warning Against Unbelief
7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

We are assured in our salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.

Our election is sure by our faith in Jesus.

If we do not continue in His kindness by living in unbelief we can't be arronant to say we are saved.

Nor can we disagree with scripture and say God lied about loving the world and that He wants all men to be saved.

That is apart of the faith we have from scripture. We are chosen in Christ, you were not chosen apart from Christ. You are chosen by remaining in Jesus Christ.

That is why the scripture say's if we disown Jesus He will disown us and that we stand firmly to the end.

God has chosen the meek and the humble and has given to them to Jesus. Trust in Jesus, He makes your election sure.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It is not mine to judge who is meek and humble or arrogant. For anyone that thinks they are the elect of God who does not trust in Jesus, now that would be arrogance

Hebrews 3:
Warning Against Unbelief
7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

We are assured in our salvation by faith in Jesus Christ.

Our election is sure by our faith in Jesus.

If we do not continue in His kindness by living in unbelief we can't be arronant to say we are saved.

Nor can we disagree with scripture and say God lied about loving the world and that He wants all men to be saved.

That is apart of the faith we have from scripture. We are chosen in Christ, you were not chosen apart from Christ. You are chosen by remaining in Jesus Christ.

That is why the scripture say's if we disown Jesus He will disown us and that we stand firmly to the end.

God has chosen the meek and the humble and has given to them to Jesus. Trust in Jesus, He makes your election sure.

I think a new thread on the glorious doctrine of election would be awesome.

 

[psalms109:31]

We do not choose the Lord on our own accord . We have no such power . The Lord draws His own to Himself .

That is where the words of Jesus come in. His words is Spirit and life and it is the Fathers. God draws us and gives us the power to take either road He placed before us.

God does not incline our hearts to believe, but places before us two paths to believe in Jesus and be saved or not and be condemned.

As you know the young rich ruler was drawned to Jesus and chosen by Jesus and walked away.

 

[psalms109:31]

Solid food

I have given scripture which is solid food that calvinist have not concidered in thier dilibiration, but i can't make them eat it.

 

[TCGreek]

That is where the words of Jesus come in. His words is Spirit and life and it is the Fathers. God draws us and gives us the power to take either road He placed before us.

God does not incline our hearts to believe, but places before us two paths to believe in Jesus and be saved or not and be condemned.

1. Where's your Scripture?

As you know the young rich ruler was drawned to Jesus and chosen by Jesus and walked away.

2. Where's your Scripture?

 

[psalms109:31]

scripture

Mark 16:15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 6:63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

John 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Romans 10:
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

No one can come unless the Father draws them is a call for us to go out and give them His word

 

[TCGreek]

Mark 16:15He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

John 6:63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

John 12:49
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.

Romans 10:
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God.

No one can come unless the Father draws them is a call for us to go out and give them His word

You conclusion doesn't follow from those texts. Besides, your conclusion also echos a well-known text, but it doesn't add up to what you are saying (John 6:65).

 

[psalms109:31]

scripture

Matthew 19:16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"

He was drawn to Jesus

21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

Chosen by Jesus

22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

walked away.

 

[Rippon]

The text in Matthew 19 does not say that he was "drawn" to Jesus . Go to John 6 for verses that specifically deal with being drawn Ps.

 

[psalms109:31]

The text in Matthew 19 does not say that he was "drawn" to Jesus . Go to John 6 for verses that specifically deal with being drawn Ps.

You do not go to someone unless you are drawn, Since no one can come to Jesus unless they were drawn. Him going to Jesus shows he was drawn by the Father, but to that conclusion, being drawn doesn't mean you can't walk away.

 

[TCGreek]

You do not go to someone unless you are drawn, Since no one can come to Jesus unless they were drawn. Him going to Jesus shows he was drawn by the Father, but to that conclusion, being drawn doesn't mean you can't walk away.

1. Ps, is that how you understand drawn to Jesus?

2. What do you do with John 6:37: "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out" (John 6:37, ESV, emphasis mine)

a. "All"

b. "the Father gives me"

c. "Will come to me"

d. "whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

3. The rich young lawyer doesn't fit this profile.

 

[psalms109:31]

1. Ps, is that how you understand drawn to Jesus?

2. What do you do with John 6:37: "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out" (John 6:37, ESV, emphasis mine)

a. "All"

b. "the Father gives me"

c. "Will come to me"

d. "whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

3. The rich young lawyer doesn't fit this profile.

The Father has given to Jesus the meek and the humble who trust in the name of the Lord. The young rich ruler didn't trust in Jesus to give up his earthly treasures

 

[TCGreek]

The Father has given to Jesus the meek and the humble who trust in the name of the Lord. The young rich ruler didn't trust in Jesus to give up his earthly treasures

Are people meek and humble because they trusted in Jesus or are only the meek and humble who really trust in Jesus?

 

[Amy.G]

1. Ps, is that how you understand drawn to Jesus?

2. What do you do with John 6:37: "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out" (John 6:37, ESV, emphasis mine)

a. "All"

b. "the Father gives me"

c. "Will come to me"

d. "whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

3. The rich young lawyer doesn't fit this profile.

Hi TC,
Jesus didn't cast him out. The young man refused Jesus' offer.