• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Dispensational interpretation of the "eye of the needle" Rich Man

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
Those who do not believe in Jesus are not saved. The Jews who were alive at Jesus’ time on earth, they were cut off for not having faith in Jesus.
So then, since the Jews were cut off, what makes you think their descendents are not also cut off if they do not believe in Jesus?

John 8:24 tells us that if the Jews don't believe Jesus is Christ... they will die in their sins...

However:

As concerning the gospel, Israel is our enemy for our [The Church, Christ's Body]'s sake...as touching the election [Deut. 4:28-31, Genesis 17:8, Rev. 7:4] Israel is beloved for the fathers' sakes [Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...]. For the gifts [land, and that Abraham should be heir of the world, Gen. 13:15, Rom. 4:13, Gal. 3:18, Dan. 2:34-35, 44-45], and the calling [Isa. 41:8-9] of God are without repentance [Rom. 11:28-29].

Romans 11:25 tells us that when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, Israel will not be blinded anymore.

Deut. 4:28-31 tells us that in the tribulation days, God will remember the Abrahamic covenant that he made...
Deut. 30:1-8 tells us that after the tribulation, They [Israel]:

"...shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. 6And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. 7And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. 8And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day."​
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Mark 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mark 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mark 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Mark 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.
Mark 10:23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Mark 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mark 10:26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
Mark 10:28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.
Mark 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,
Mark 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
Mark 10:31 But many that are first shall be last; and the last first.

The above is not for Christ's body the Church, as 1 Tim. 6:17 shows us that it is possible for a man in this present dispensation to be rich, and there being nothing wrong with it.

The Dispensational interpretation, on the other hand, makes perfect sense, as the elect Jews in the tribulation period [which dispensation Christ spake this to, and this same dispensation will be resumed after the present dispensation ends], will not be able to buy or sell [Rev. 13:16-17]. They will have to forsake very much to enter the Kingdom of God [Lk. 17:26-37]. It is told to them to depart out of Jerusalem when the abomination of desolation happens [Mt. 24:15-18]. They will have to leave their possessions [Mt. 24:17-18]. They are not going to be able to trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God. Thankfully, Christ told them something to do though to prepare for the tribulation.

Luke 16:1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
Luke 16:2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
Luke 16:3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
Luke 16:4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
Luke 16:5 So he called every one of his lord's debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
Luke 16:6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
Luke 16:7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
Luke 16:8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
Luke 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
Luke 16:12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Luke 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

We see that some of the Gentiles will help Israel out [Rev. 12:16, Mt. 25:31-46].

"I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren [The Jews - Rom. 9:4-5], ye have done it unto me." [Mt. 25:35-40]​

We see as well, that after the tribulation, the elect Jews will be spoiling those who spoiled them.
[Isaiah 14:2, 60:14, Jer. 30:16]

actually, the main point of jesus applies regardless if one is a Dispy or not!

that a man cannot be saved by his own rightousness and good works, that ONLY thru the grace of God!
 

Moriah

New Member
John 8:24 tells us that if the Jews don't believe Jesus is Christ... they will die in their sins...

However:

As concerning the gospel, Israel is our enemy for our [The Church, Christ's Body]'s sake...as touching the election [Deut. 4:28-31, Genesis 17:8, Rev. 7:4] Israel is beloved for the fathers' sakes [Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...]. For the gifts [land, and that Abraham should be heir of the world, Gen. 13:15, Rom. 4:13, Gal. 3:18, Dan. 2:34-35, 44-45], and the calling [Isa. 41:8-9] of God are without repentance [Rom. 11:28-29].

Romans 11:25 tells us that when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, Israel will not be blinded anymore.

Deut. 4:28-31 tells us that in the tribulation days, God will remember the Abrahamic covenant that he made...
Deut. 30:1-8 tells us that after the tribulation, They [Israel]:

"...shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. 6And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. 7And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee. 8And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day."​

A Jew can be grafted in if they do not persist in unbelief. See Hebrews 11:23.

The Jews missed their Messiah because they were looking for an earthly King and more concerned about an earthly land than what is spiritual.

There are Christians who are keeping the flawed thinking alive, that Jesus is giving Jews an earthly land to rule on an earthly world.

The saved will live with Jesus on a new earth, after the resurrection, after the great white throne judgment.

Jews are accepting Jesus to this day. If when Jesus comes, many more Jews accept Jesus, there will probably be other races and those of different religions believing at that time in Jesus too.

However, Jesus says when he comes again; he will come for those who are waiting for him.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

You should be concerned about all peoples turning to Jesus, not just the Jews.
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
The scriptures plainly and clearly say the Jews and Gentiles become one new man in Christ.

Indeed

God nailed the Old Testament rules and regulations to the cross. The rules and regulations separated Jews and Gentiles.


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh [who we are {Eph. 5:30}] the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body [The Church, His Body {Eph. 5:30}, who the 144 000 {Rev. 7:4} will not be a part of] by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Matthew 5:17-18 tells us that Christ did not come to destroy the law...
Till heaven and earth pass [Rev. 21:1], one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

[At least] some of the OT scriptures [such as Zech. 8:23, Ezek. 40-48, Isa 56:6-8] will be fulfilled after the rapture of Christ's Body.
 

Moriah

New Member
So, does that mean you now agree that the Jew and the Gentile are the one new man in Christ?

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh [who we are {Eph. 5:30}] the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body [The Church, His Body {Eph. 5:30}, who the 144 000 {Rev. 7:4} will not be a part of] by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

If someone is not a part of Jesus, then how do you think they can be saved? All must go through Jesus to get to the Father. They must have faith in Jesus, or they are not of God.
Matthew 5:17-18 tells us that Christ did not come to destroy the law...
Till heaven and earth pass [Rev. 21:1], one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets. All the Old Testament was a prophecy about Jesus.
All the observance of special days that the Jews had to adhere to, those were about Jesus.
All the rules and regulations for the priests, Jesus fulfilled them.
The ceremonial cleaning…Jesus fulfilled that.
The animal sacrifices, no one has to do those things, because Jesus fulfilled the requirements.
There is no more sin offering, burnt offering, guilt offering, fellowship offering.
Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets.

[At least] some of the OT scriptures [such as Zech. 8:23, Ezek. 40-48, Isa 56:6-8] will be fulfilled after the rapture of Christ's Body.
I do not know what you mean by saying the rapture of Christ’s Body.
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
The 144 000 will not be a part of the Church, Christ's Body. They will be the Psalm 45:13-15 and Mt. 25:1-13 virgins.
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
Are you kidding? You said plainly that the new man is NOT the Jews and Gentiles. You said the new man is Christ.

We, the Church [Christ's Body], whether we be Jew or Gentile are joint-heirs with Christ [Rom. 8:17], we are members of His Body, of His Flesh, and of His bones [Eph. 5:30].
 

Moriah

New Member
We, the Church [Christ's Body], whether we be Jew or Gentile are joint-heirs with Christ [Rom. 8:17], we are members of His Body, of His Flesh, and of His bones [Eph. 5:30].

Are you kidding? You said plainly that the new man is NOT the Jews and Gentiles. You said the new man is Christ.

Jesus made the two one.
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
The Church [Christ's Body] is the heavenly temple in the Millennium [Jn. 2:21, Eph. 2:19-22, 1 Pet. 2:5].
Israel won't be a part of that temple, they will have an earthly temple [Ezek. 40-48].
 

Moriah

New Member
The Church [Christ's Body] is the heavenly temple in the Millennium [Jn. 2:21, Eph. 2:19-22, 1 Pet. 2:5].
Israel won't be a part of that temple, they will have an earthly temple [Ezek. 40-48].

Do you think God approves of an earthly temple?
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
Are you kidding? You said plainly that the new man is NOT the Jews and Gentiles. You said the new man is Christ.

Jesus made the two one.

The New Man is Christ, we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones [Eph. 5:30].

Interestingly, God called their [Adam and Eve]'s name Adam [Gen. 5:2].
Same for the Church, Christ's Body.
 

Moriah

New Member
The New Man is Christ, we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones [Eph. 5:30].

Interestingly, God called their [Adam and Eve]'s name Adam [Gen. 5:2].
Same for the Church, Christ's Body.

Jesus made the Jew and the Gentile one new man.
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
Do you think God approves of an earthly temple?

Sure, Ezekiel 40-48 says so. [He can't lie...Numbers 23:19. & Jesus said that Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.{Mt. 5:17-18}]
 

Jope

Active Member
Site Supporter
You said plainly that the new man is NOT the Jews and Gentiles. You said the new man is Christ.

........Ok, guess I'm wrong, I guess the new man is the Jews and the Gentiles after all. [Eph. 2 says otherwise though....].
 

Moriah

New Member
Sure, Ezekiel 40-48 says so. [He can't lie...Numbers 23:19. & Jesus said that Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.{Mt. 5:17-18}]
Jesus already fulfilled the law!
Therefore, you think God cares about an earthly temple and not people to be the temples of the Holy Spirit.
Do you also think that God would approve of animals sacrifices?
 
Top