Both saved jews and Gentiles make up now the Church, which is spiritual israel, but the Lord still will deal with national Israel when he returns!
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Dispensational Understanding of the New Covenant... 3 views
- Thread starter thomas15
- Start date
”Richard Kendall Soulen argues that supersessionism is linked with how some view the coming of Jesus Christ: “According to this teaching [supersessionism],God chose the Jewish people after the fall of Adam in order to prepare the world for the coming of Jesus Christ, the Savior. After Christ came, however, the special role of the Jewish people came to an end and its place was taken by the church, the new Israel. ”Herman Ridderbos asserts that there is a positive and negative element to the supersessionist view: “On the one hand, in a positive sense it presupposes that the church springs from, is born out of Israel; on the other hand, the church takes the place of Israel as the historical people of God.”
Interesting, I have found no premillennial thinkers until the 1800s, the same time dispensational thinking came on the scene.
It is clear you enjoy the dispensational philosophy of Bible interpretation. As an instructor of the philosophy, I hardly expect to sway you away from your chosen philosophy.
A literal reading will reveal that the day of the Lord comes when the last elect person is Redeemed. Every writer in scripture confirms this truth.
A literal reading shows the writers always connecting their readers to the covenants of God.
Therefore, dispensationalism is a philosophy that comes from outside the Bible and imposes it's philosophy upon the text.
"A dispensation is a distinguishable economy in the outworking of God's purpose" (Charles Ryrie, Dispensationalism, p 33)
And there we see the philosophy.
God works his purpose in covenants. This is the outworking of God's purpose...no other.
In the Bible, God makes covenants with his chosen people and fulfills his covenant in his promised one.
You present a classic dispensational philosophy and man-made chopping up of the Bible. It's like you're making a tossed salad when God has made an amazing steak.
Mikey
Active Member
Are you only refering to Dispensationalist Premil and not Historic Premil? Historic Premil existed prior to the establishment of dispensationalism. Dispensationalism took premil, modified it for their theology and as such became a distinct view.
I don't know what your animus towards dispensationalism is, or why you've gotten some things wrong about it. Maybe you were taught wrongly, or maybe you just forgot.
I don't know why you have made such antagonistic comments towards dispensationalists, or accused me of some nasty things like you have--I've done nothing to you. I'll just pray for you. God bless.
“It is generally agreed that the view of the church for the centuries immediately following the Apostolic era was the premillennial view of the return of Christ.”[1]
From Dr. Paul Himes, accessing the church fathers:
Papias of Hieropolis recorded in Irenaeus and Eusebius as holding to “a thousand year period” of blessing.
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho the Jew, 80-81, “I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.” And he specifically links all this to the book of Revelation.
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5.30.4, “But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance.”
Tertullian, 160-220 AD, Against Marcion, 3.24, “But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem, ‘let down from heaven,’ which the apostle also calls ‘our mother from above;’ and, while declaring that our citizenship is in heaven, he predicates of it that it is really a city in heaven. This both Ezekiel had knowledge of and the Apostle John beheld.”
[1] J. Dwight Pentecost, Things to Come (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1958), 373.
37818
Well-Known Member
Not Biblical.
Dwight Pentacost...yet another dispensational philosopher. I also have his book "Things to Come".
Good writer, but wrong in some areas, as we all are!
Is to those of us holding to a form of Covenant theology though!
Note the total disregard for the point of my post. CT doctrine is the church replaces the recipient of the fulfillment of the Old Covenant promises.
Proving once again, your understanding of CT is not in according with published doctrine.
What is biblical is that all the elect, from Adam to the present, are children of the promise as given to Abraham when God made a covenant with Abraham.
No gentile is a part of the Mosaic covenant and moreso the Mosaic covenant was fulfilled by Jesus at the cross, thus ending the Mosaic covenant. God's relationship with the nation of Israel is over. However, God still has elect children of the promise who can trace their lineage to Israel.
That is biblical.
Therefore, when one says the church is Israel, it is only in so much as the church now has the New Covenant, which is an eternal covenant, while the nation of Israel no longer has a covenant with God.
Not stating that God no longer dealing with the Jews, but that he has them now coming into the Church as saved, and that together Jews and Gentiles are one Body, a only Covenant now inforce is the new One!
Folks, Y1 just posts ambiguity to hide inconsistency.
”Richard Kendall Soulen argues that supersessionism is linked with how some view the coming of Jesus Christ: “According to this teaching [supersessionism],God chose the Jewish people after the fall of Adam in order to prepare the world for the coming of Jesus Christ, the Savior. After Christ came, however, the special role of the Jewish people came to an end and its place was taken by the church, the new Israel. ”Herman Ridderbos asserts that there is a positive and negative element to the supersessionist view: “On the one hand, in a positive sense it presupposes that the church springs from, is born out of Israel; on the other hand, the church takes the place of Israel as the historical people of God.”