Dispensationalism Defined, Discussed, Debated

[beameup]

What Gospel did Peter preach to Cornelius, the Gentile?

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was
committed unto me [Paul], as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:7

I'll let the scripture "do the talkin'"... that is, unless Paul's epistles have somehow "disappeared" from your bible.

 

[OldRegular]

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was
committed unto me [Paul], as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
Gal 2:7

I'll let the scripture "do the talkin'"... that is, unless Paul's epistles have somehow "disappeared" from your bible.

Scripture does the talking. I have shown in my previous post that Peter preached to the Gentiles before Paul, that Cornelius was not a Jewish proselyte, that both Peter and Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like many pre-tribbers on this Forum you are perfectly willing to cherry pick what Scripture you will or will not believe. However, even they reject your heretical claim that there is more than one Gospel!

 

[revmwc]

Scripture does the talking. I have shown in my previous post that Peter preached to the Gentiles before Paul, that Cornelius was not a Jewish proselyte, that both Peter and Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Like many pre-tribbers on this Forum you are perfectly willing to cherry pick what Scripture you will or will not believe. However, even they reject your heretical claim that there is more than one Gospel!

Scripture is also clear:

Galatians 2:7-9

7 "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."

Paul made a distinction. In our time God has progressed in dealing with us all by scripture. He used Paul to win the Gentiles in the early stages of the church age, He used Peter and others to reach the Jews. Now they reach all both Jew and Gentile with the scriptures they wrote.

God's dealing progressed and will continue to progress even after the church has been snatched away. Then He will deal with mankind by the 144000 Jewish witness who will spread the gospel to the world, the two witnesses will also witness to the whole world. God progresses in dealing with mankind.

 

[OldRegular]

Scripture is also clear:

Galatians 2:7-9

7 "But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."

Paul made a distinction. In our time God has progressed in dealing with us all by scripture. He used Paul to win the Gentiles in the early stages of the church age, He used Peter and others to reach the Jews. Now they reach all both Jew and Gentile with the scriptures they wrote.

God's dealing progressed and will continue to progress even after the church has been snatched away. Then He will deal with mankind by the 144000 Jewish witness who will spread the gospel to the world, the two witnesses will also witness to the whole world. God progresses in dealing with mankind.

You are as Biblically illiterate as beameup. Paul preached to both Jew and Gentile just as Peter did. When Paul went to Rome read what he did:

Acts 28:19-31
17. And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
18. Who, when they had examined me, would have let me go, because there was no cause of death in me.
19. But when the Jews spake against it, I was constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my nation of.
20. For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
21. And they said unto him, We neither received letters out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came shewed or spake any harm of thee.
22. But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken against.
23. And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
24. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
25. And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26. Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27. For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
30. And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
31. Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

I have enlarged certain verses for your benefit!

 

[beameup]

The Gospel of the Circumcision centers around the Messianic Kingdom and the necessity of the whole Nation of Israel to repent.
Until this happens, the Messiah will not return to earth to set up his Kingdom, which is centered in Jerusalem.
The Gentiles who have no knowledge of 'the prophets' or 'Moses' are ignorant of this (Cornelius had knowledge)
can be saved by the Pauline Gospel of Grace and have a 'heavenly' future.

 

[OldRegular]

The Gospel of the Circumcision centers around the Messianic Kingdom and the necessity of the whole Nation of Israel to repent.
Until this happens, the Messiah will not return to earth to set up his Kingdom, which is centered in Jerusalem.
The Gentiles who have no knowledge of 'the prophets' or 'Moses' are ignorant of this (Cornelius had knowledge)
can be saved by the Pauline Gospel of Grace and have a 'heavenly' future.

There is no Gospel of Circumcision; that is a blasphemous heretical lie. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

Mark 1:1. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

I assume you are able to read beameup.

 

[HankD]

I'm with OR in his conviction with this one (but partially with one aspect of beameup's explanation). There is only one gospel, forgiveness of sin and eternal life through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood.

This gospel had its beginning revelation in Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 53 and many others and fully revealed by Christ and His apostles.

Prepositionally it would IMO be better to say the "gospel to the circumcised" though it is a genitive phrase, it is not a limitation of the kind of gospel but the kind of people to whom it is to be preached.

Usage :
NAS Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised

RSV Galatians 2:7 but on the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised.

It is the same gospel, but needs a different cultural introduction for Jews and for Gentiles.

This is why Paul suffered beatings from both the circumcision (he speaks evil of Moses the law) and the uncircumcision (he said Diana should be despised, destroyed).

He led up to the gospel with the Jewish hearers by taking the approach of Jesus being the fulfillment of the law.

Obviously he didn't use that approach with Gentiles but used their idolatry as a springboard to the gospel.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is an OFFENSE to every culture and requires a cultural, historical, linguistical study to have the wisdom to correctly present the gospel.

A different introduction and approach with the one gospel is necessary to the lost New Zealand natives as opposed to the lost Catholic theologian. But It must always lead to the blood atonement of the one gospel of the only Savior.


HankD

 

[kyredneck]

...The gospel of Jesus Christ is an OFFENSE to every culture....

...but it's good news to the regenerate heart, regardless of culture.

 

[OldRegular]

I'm with OR in his conviction with this one (but partially with one aspect of beameup's explanation). There is only one gospel, forgiveness of sin and eternal life through faith in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood.

This gospel had its beginning revelation in Genesis 3:15, Isaiah 53 and many others and fully revealed by Christ and His apostles.

Prepositionally it would IMO be better to say the "gospel to the circumcised" though it is a genitive phrase, it is not a limitation of the kind of gospel but the kind of people to whom it is to be preached.

Usage :
NAS Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised

RSV Galatians 2:7 but on the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised.

It is the same gospel, but needs a different cultural introduction for Jews and for Gentiles.

This is why Paul suffered beatings from both the circumcision (he speaks evil of Moses the law) and the uncircumcision (he said Diana should be despised, destroyed).

He led up to the gospel with the Jewish hearers by taking the approach of Jesus being the fulfillment of the law.

Obviously he didn't use that approach with Gentiles but used their idolatry as a springboard to the gospel.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is an OFFENSE to every culture and requires a cultural, historical, linguistical study to have the wisdom to correctly present the gospel.

A different introduction and approach with the one gospel is necessary to the lost New Zealand natives as opposed to the lost Catholic theologian. But It must always lead to the blood atonement of the one gospel of the only Savior.


HankD

Thanks much HankD. Very well said!

 

[OldRegular]

...but it's good news to the regenerate heart, regardless of culture.

Even to regenerate hillbillies like you and me for which I am eternally grateful!

 

[HankD]

...but it's good news to the regenerate heart, regardless of culture.

Amen! (and that's a Yankee amen)!

HankD

 

[beameup]

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
This prophecy has not been fulfilled yet.

 

[Iconoclast]

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )
This prophecy has not been fulfilled yet.

It has been fulfilled as the only eartly Holy place was left desolate. There cannot be a "holy place" on earth any longer as Jesus rules from the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem now.....nothing would make any place on earth Holy now

 

[beameup]

It has been fulfilled as the only eartly Holy place was left desolate. There cannot be a "holy place" on earth any longer as Jesus rules from the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem now.....nothing would make any place on earth Holy now

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. [3 1/2 years, 2nd half of Tribulation] Rev 11:1-2
Yet future

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet] 2 Thes 2:4
Yet future

 

[kyredneck]

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations;....

Done. Fulfilled already, before the completion of the NT:

So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:17-18

5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1

Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal, but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16:25-26

....When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Done. Fulfilled already, in 66 AD with Jerusalem being surrounded by the Roman army:

When You See Jerusalem Surrounded.....

 

[kyredneck]

And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. [3 1/2 years, 2nd half of Tribulation] Rev 11:1-2
Yet future

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1

6 And he said unto me, These words are faithful and true: and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angels to show unto his servants the things which must shortly come to pass.
7 And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.
12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.
20 He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus.

From the very beginning to the very end of the book we're told, 'must shortly come to pass, 'the time is at hand', 'I come quickly', 'seal not up these words for the time is at hand'.

But you seal it up and relegate it all to the far distant future.

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. [....2 Thes 2:4
Yet future

What about Paul's "Man of Sin"?

 

[HankD]

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

It is apparent that the Jerusalem in Luke 21:24 is the earthly Jerusalem in national Israel and was desolate of the temple until 1948.

May 14, 1948, national Israel was reborn. Jerusalem was indeed returned to national Israel but for whatever reason they chose not to rebuild the temple at the Temple Mount. They subsequently gave control of the Temple Mount to Islam (why?). So at very least they (national Israel) need to have possession of the Temple Mount for the complete fulfillment of Luke 21:24.

However some rabbinical scholars are saying that the Temple could be rebuilt in the location of the now City of David where the tabernacle first rested and became the first temple site.


HankD

 

[beameup]

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

It is apparent that the Jerusalem in Luke 21:24 is the earthly Jerusalem in national Israel and was desolate of the temple until 1948.

May 14, 1948, national Israel was reborn. Jerusalem was indeed returned to national Israel but for whatever reason they chose not to rebuild the temple at the Temple Mount. They subsequently gave control of the Temple Mount to Islam (why?). So at very least they (national Israel) need to have possession of the Temple Mount for the complete fulfillment of Luke 21:24.

However some rabbinical scholars are saying that the Temple could be rebuilt in the location of the now City of David where the tabernacle first rested and became the first temple site.


HankD

Sounds feasible that the tabernacle could be set-up and sacrifices resumed. Perhaps it might take as little as 3 days to set-up the tabernacle at the City of David. The priests have already been trained, the implements created. They have agreed that the holy-place/most-holy-place can be set-up before Messiah.

 

[kyredneck]

...May 14, 1948, national Israel was reborn. Jerusalem was indeed returned to national Israel but for whatever reason they chose not to rebuild the temple at the Temple Mount. They subsequently gave control of the Temple Mount to Islam (why?). So at very least they (national Israel) need to have possession of the Temple Mount for the complete fulfillment of Luke 21:24....

So you're convinced that this present political entity that goes by the name of Israel is the final state? By no means is this opinion universal among Baptists, not the least of which is:

“Dr. Paige Patterson, president of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary and a dispensational premillennialist:

The present state of Israel is not the final form. The present state of Israel will be lost, eventually, and Israel will be run out of the land again, only to return when they accept the Messiah as Savior.”

 

[HankD]

But you seal it up and relegate it all to the far distant future.

Jesus made room for His delay

Matthew 24
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What about 2 Peter 3:8-10?

Every position has its issues.

It will not be resolved here at the BB.

HankD