Dispensationalism is a humanly contrived system that has been imposed on the Sacred scripture.

[37818]

You hermeneutical interpretation is not biblical or historic. Premillennial Dispensationalism is heterodoxy.

First off, premillennialism is the Biblical reading of the text. And I hold a post trib pre wrath rapure view which I have held since 1969. So I have had some 50 years to change my mind, if the Scripture taught otherwise.

Now you honestly believe I am wrong. Let us take this step by step. Set each point of difference side by side, one step at a time. Where do you want to start first?

 

[robycop3]

First off, premillennialism is the Biblical reading of the text. And I hold a post trib pre wrath rapure view which I have held since 1969. So I have had some 50 years to change my mind, if the Scripture taught otherwise.

Now you honestly believe I am wrong. Let us take this step by step. Set each point of difference side by side, one step at a time. Where do you want to start first?

Actually, the rapture will occur before the trib. Remember, Jesus will call the saints up to that time to Himself; He won't come to them.

When He returns, He will call all the trib saints to join Himself & the previously-called saints.

 

[Salty]

People have tried to break up the Bible into all sorts of convoluted categories and that is exactly what dispensationalism does.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. God has always saved people by his grace alone and justified people by faith alone. Since the fall God has redeemed according to his covenantal promise. We need go no further.

In the OT - sin was paid for by the blood of a lamb
In the NT - sin was paid for by the blood of THE Lamb

Thus there is a difference!

 

[George Antonios]

When will we rise? Well the Bible tells us, on the last day, when will Lazarus rise? Again, Jesus tells us on the last day. It is really that simple. No charts, no crazy maps, no flow charts, no scripture twisting, no sensationalizing the end times. You have this age, which was ushered in by the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the last day, which everyone else will rise.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[37818]

Actually, the rapture will occur before the trib.

There are a number issues. Where is a pre trib rapure actually taught in the Bible? There is only one first resurrection, revelation 20:6 and those resurrected in the text happen to be tribulation saints, Revelation 20:4. And furthermore the rapture will in no way occure before the dead in Christ are raised, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

 

[AustinC]

In the OT - sin was paid for by the blood of a lamb
In the NT - sin was paid for by the blood of THE Lamb

Thus there is a difference!

No, sin was not paid for by the Levitical offerings. Sin was only covered. The offerings pointed to the once and for all offerings of Jesus, our High Priest who is greater than the Levitical priests. (Hebrews 7-9)
In scripture you see typology that foreshadows the Promised One. You do not see some other form of redemption. The reason you don't and cannot is because only our perfect High Priest could offer the perfect sacrifice and forever intercede against the wrath of God the Father because of our unholiness.

We have always had only one mediator between God and man...Jesus the Messiah.

 

[37818]

Actually, the rapture will occur before the trib. Remember, Jesus will call the saints up to that time to Himself; He won't come to them.

When He returns, He will call all the trib saints to join Himself & the previously-called saints.

Matthew 24:29-31, ". . . Immediately after the tribulation of those days . . . a great sound of a trumpet . . . shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. . . ." Heaven? Sounds like a gathering of all the resurrected and living saints to me. Remember there can only be one first resurrection. And there can only be one "the last" trumpet, 1 Corinthians 15:52. And Jesus said "the last day" John 6:44. Compare 2 Peter 3:8.

 

[AustinC]

Well I will but I won't give you my opinion I will let scripture speak and according to it and my belief also there are only two... Brother Glen

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Now, read Romans 1-11 to see how that applies across the board. Pay attention Hebrews and the reason for the Mosaic covenant and why it foreshadowed a new and better covenant.

One verse does not a theology make.

 

[Salty]

No, sin was not paid for by the Levitical offerings. Sin was only covered. The offerings pointed to the once and for all offerings of Jesus,....

But the point is that there was a difference between the OT & NT.

We have always had only one mediator between God and man...Jesus the Messiah.

But in the OT - that mediator was a priest.

 

[AustinC]

But the point is that there was a difference between the OT & NT.



But in the OT - that mediator was a priest.

The Mosaic Covenant was given to show that all humans break God's law and have no hope apart from the Promised One. The entire OT points to Christ Jesus.
The priest could not make full atonement for the people, nor even for himself. He died only with hope for the coming Redeemer. The Mosaic Covenant could not save him or the people. Romans, Galatians and Hebrews all make this point.

The danger is that people attempt to make separations where there is none. The Bible is one flowing narrative of God's saving work in Redeeming fallen man.

 

[kyredneck]

justified people by faith alone

...would've been a great post if you hadn't threw in this error.

What the scripture clearly states:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

 

[AustinC]

...would've been a great post if you hadn't threw in this error.

What the scripture clearly states:

24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

The error is yours my friend. Your view supports Roman Catholic teaching of faith plus works to be justified.
My view understands that faith, by its very function, works. Hence, justification by faith alone encompasses the good works God has ordained us to do.

 

[kyredneck]

Your view supports Roman Catholic teaching

Whew, didn't take you long to resort to the only response you've ever had, because you have no Biblical response...not even one tiny itsy bitsy verse of scripture do you have.

 

[kyredneck]

The Bible is one flowing narrative of God's saving work in Redeeming fallen man.

Now this I 100% agree with!

 

[robycop3]

There are a number issues. Where is a pre trib rapure actually taught in the Bible? There is only one first resurrection, revelation 20:6 and those resurrected in the text happen to be tribulation saints, Revelation 20:4. And furthermore the rapture will in no way occure before the dead in Christ are raised, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

The dead in Christ, including the Old Testament saints, will be raised from paradise at the rapture. The trib saints who will be martyred will be resurrected at the Rev. 20:6 resurrection.

The error is yours my friend. Your view supports Roman Catholic teaching of faith plus works to be justified.
My view understands that faith, by its very function, works. Hence, justification by faith alone encompasses the good works God has ordained us to do.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[1689Dave]

Scripture does not mention a millennium. But since John mentions 1000 years in Revelation 20, they assume he mentions the Pharisee's millennium. But the Bible uses the number 1000 as a symbol for "many" a "multitude" or "completeness" in the OT. So it is purely reading ideas the bible never mentions into Revelation 20. Plus, Jesus destroyed Premillennialism using His gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[Reformed1689]

Dispensationalism is a humanly contrived system that has been imposed on the Sacred scripture.

Amillennialism (which is the historic biblical view): the teaching of Scripture—the belief that there will be no physical or literal reign of Christ on earth for a thousand literal years prior to judgment day.

Premillennialism: the belief that Christ will return before the millennium to rapture the church before the Great Tribulation.

Postmillennialism: Christ returns after the millennium and the tribulation. There will be a utopia on earth before Christ comes.

The dangers of millennialism (Dispensationism)

Millennialism is not a minor error. As with all errors, it ultimately undermines Christ and his gospel. The following are some dangers posed by millennialism.

1. It rejects the gospel as the only means of grace for all ages. Because of dispensationalism (the belief that God has divided world history into different ages during which he will test people with regard to a specific command), millennialism holds that God has a different means in each age to accomplish his purpose of salvation.

2. Millennialism has an entirely false sense of history. It makes the physical nation of Israel, not the church, the center of history.

3. The gospel is often lost from sight by millennialists. Jesus and his atoning work receive little attention in their writings, as do the sacraments.

4. Millennialism dulls a person’s spiritual awareness. There is “still time” before the real end comes. Perhaps there is a second chance.

5. Millennialism dulls a person’s anticipation of heaven. As one looks at the millennial scheme, heaven is almost an afterthought.

Dispensationalism was popularized by John Nelson Darby, the Dallas theological Seminary, Schofield reference Bible, and campus outreach.

There is no secret rapture. The only thing left behind in pre-tribulation, “secret rapture” theology is the Bible. It does nothing but sensationalize the times. There are variations of dispensationalism. There are flavors that teach Old Testament sacrifices will be re-instituted, etc., and that there is two salvation plans, one for the Jews and one for everyone else, etc.

When will we rise? Well the Bible tells us, on the last day, when will Lazarus rise? Again, Jesus tells us on the last day. It is really that simple. No charts, no crazy maps, no flow charts, no scripture twisting, no sensationalizing the end times. You have this age, which was ushered in by the resurrection of Jesus Christ and the last day, which everyone else will rise.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

The biblical history view of eschatology is Amillennialism.

Way to lump all dispensationalists into the same boat of which most dispensationalists DO NOT adhere to.

 

[Reformed1689]

Scripture does not mention a millennium. But since John mentions 1000 years in Revelation 20, they assume he mentions the Pharisee's millennium. But the Bible uses the number 1000 as a symbol for "many" a "multitude" or "completeness" in the OT. So it is purely reading ideas the bible never mentions into Revelation 20. Plus, Jesus destroyed Premillennialism using His gospel of the Kingdom.

This is just ignorant. Apparently, you don't know what a millennium is. There is NO reason to believe that the 1,000 is not a literal 1,000 years based on the text.

 

[kyredneck]

There is NO reason to believe that the 1,000 is not a literal 1,000 years based on the text.

???

8 Therefore in one day shall her plagues come, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire; for strong is the Lord God who judged her.
10 standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
17 for in an hour so great riches is made desolate. And every shipmaster, and every one that saileth any wither, and mariners, and as many as gain their living by sea, stood afar off, Rev 18

So did it take one hour or one day to destroy the old whore? Is it a literal whore decked out in literal priests' garments riding a literal red dragon with seven heads and ten horns? Do you 'cherry pick' to your satisfaction which is literal in the book?

 

[1689Dave]

This is just ignorant. Apparently, you don't know what a millennium is. There is NO reason to believe that the 1,000 is not a literal 1,000 years based on the text.

If you care to prove Jesus taught a millennium, a Pharisee doctrine he demolished, have at it. His gospel of the Kingdom won't allow for it. Are you adding to Revelation when you import the Pharisaic Premillennial doctrine, just because John mentions 1000 years? The bible says 1000 years is a symbol for many or for all. It never mentions a Millennium.