Dispensationalism is not what Christ taught

[vooks]

I'll save that for another thread.

Not interested, it was a rhetorical question.

 

[Bob Hope]

Not interested, it was a rhetorical question.

You should consider reading the works of Stephen Jones. His book "The struggle for the birthright" is well researched. If not check out this video by Rodger Norman.

 

[Darrell C]

Just wait until Israel gets nuked to kick off WWIII. Many Baptist will think they missed the rapture.

Scripture is pretty clear Israel will be intact in the Tribulation.

And not likely you will find many Baptists who think they missed the Rapture for any reason, first, because many Baptists reject the Pre-Trib Rapture, and secondly, it would take falling into a poorer eschatology for them to think that.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

You hang in there and you'll figure it out.

Hate to say it, but that is a bit of an inactive response.

Again, what Kingdom would first century Jews have been expectant of?

I already know which Kingdom they awaited, just curious as to your view.


God bless.

 

[Bob Hope]

Hate to say it, but that is a bit of an inactive response.

Again, what Kingdom would first century Jews have been expectant of?

I already know which Kingdom they awaited, just curious as to your view.


God bless.

What most do not take into account was that Israel as a nation was not present when Christ lived. What existed was a melting pot of peoples. Sure there were enough flesh and blood Israelites to facilitate the Messiahs birth but most Jews were not physically Hebrews nor were they Israelites spiritually. They were blind to any real fulfillment of scripture. It is not a relevant question to ask what kingdom they expected.

The fact remains that the salvation message taught by Christ is the same one commanded in the great commission. It is the same message found in many of the apostles writings deemed dispensational. There is no different salvation for Jews than there is for Gentiles. It has always been the same and will remain the same until Christ returns. Read the story of the valley of dry bones and ask yourself who this Israel truly is and how does God purpose to cleanse them?

 

[JonC]

There is so much arbitrariness in employment of literalism. Literalism is simply invoked to advance a previously held belief and dropped at the slightest hint of interpretive difficulty.

What I'm saying is there are no rules of employing literalism in dispensationalism; you have to accept some parts as being literal or symbolic unquestioningly.

I too belong to neither camp, and nor do I pretend to. I may not have a cogent eschatology to lean back on but I sure can pick out nonsense in any system. In my estimation, the errors and assumptions of Dispensationalism are one too many to be ignored. Ezekiel's temple was the tipping point

I don't think all in either camp are arbitrary in their method, but perhaps both allow their theoretical view points to influence interpretation (I believe this true as each contends theirs is the proper system to view Scripture as a whole). I have simply rejected the need for either while accepting that both can point to biblical truths.

Sent from my TARDIS

 

[Bob Hope]

I don't think all in either camp are arbitrary in their method, but perhaps both allow their theoretical view points to influence interpretation (I believe this true as each contends theirs is the proper system to view Scripture as a whole). I have simply rejected the need for either while accepting that both can point to biblical truths.

Sent from my TARDIS

What is your opinion of non canonized books? And do you think that if there were mistakes in the modern bible that one should have less faith in those scriptures?

 

[vooks]

You should consider reading the works of Stephen Jones. His book "The struggle for the birthright" is well researched. If not check out this video by Rodger Norman.

Every [Edited: Name Calling] thinks they are Jews

 

[Bob Hope]

Every moron thinks they are Jews

Your statement doesn't make sense. You mean every moron thinks they are Israelites? Jew is a religious term.

 

[JonC]

What is your opinion of non canonized books? And do you think that if there were mistakes in the modern bible that one should have less faith in those scriptures?

My opinion on non canonized books is that they can be useful but not authoritative in terms of actual Scripture. I also do not see them useful in terms of doctrine).

I believe that there is always the possibility/probability of mistakes in translations as men are fallible. I do not believe, however, that that such potential justifies less faith in Scripture. We have to realize that translations are tools.

Sent from my TARDIS

 

[Darrell C]

What most do not take into account was that Israel as a nation was not present when Christ lived. What existed was a melting pot of peoples. Sure there were enough flesh and blood Israelites to facilitate the Messiahs birth but most Jews were not physically Hebrews nor were they Israelites spiritually. They were blind to any real fulfillment of scripture. It is not a relevant question to ask what kingdom they expected.

That Israel was intact in the Lord's Day goes without saying, as there are many indicators in both the Gospels as well as the Epistles to see that it was.

I will give you an example of each:


Matthew 8:9-10

King James Version (KJV)

9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.


The contrast here is between Israel and Gentiles.


Romans 11:25

King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


Israel would have had to be in existence in order for her to come under this blindness, which coincides with the Mystery of Gentile Inclusion, which of course began at Pentecost.

As far as the view that they were Hebrew in that day, or today, I see that as a view that has potential foundation in racist attitude. If nothing else, we would consider that the inscription placed on the Cross was also written in Hebrew. Paul was an Hebrew of the Hebrews.

The fact remains that the salvation message taught by Christ is the same one commanded in the great commission. It is the same message found in many of the apostles writings deemed dispensational. There is no different salvation for Jews than there is for Gentiles. It has always been the same and will remain the same until Christ returns. Read the story of the valley of dry bones and ask yourself who this Israel truly is and how does God purpose to cleanse them?

God will fulfill, Nationally, the promise given in Ezekiel 36:22-27.

We see this same promise given here:


Romans 11:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


Because of the events of the Tribulation and the Return of Christ, Paul states "All Israel" which is correct because all that are unbelieving perish by the time the Sheep and Goat Judgment ends and the Kingdom is established.

God is not done with Israel yet. They have been around since their creation as a Nation, have never disappeared (though scattered), and will be intact and once again performing Levitical Service when the Tribulation begins.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Your statement doesn't make sense. You mean every moron thinks they are Israelites? Jew is a religious term.

The term "Jew" is not a religious term, it is derived from "Judah," and referred to those inhabitants of the Southern Kingdom, and since become a primary designation for those of Israel.


God bless.