He held to heresy, as any saved jew must receive jesus as their messiah and Lord in order to be included in New Covenant, as he held that they could still get saved by that old one still
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Dispensationalism
- Thread starter Marooncat79
- Start date
Never heard of this in my life.
easternstar
Active Member
Allow me to comment, even though I'm not a dispensationalist, and this is one reason why. It's a hideous doctrine, and it is another gospel, or rather no gospel. The whole dispensational scheme is a denial of the work of Christ.
easternstar
Active Member
Wouldn't say the Mosaic sarifices were blasphemous, but they weren't instituted by God, either.
But the OT sacrifices were pointing to a future one time sacrifice for all time sacrifice. Seeing that Christ fulfilled them, there is no further need of them, nor a necessity of them being reinstituted at a later time.
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
Romans 11:1-2
1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
I am a dispensationalist. I believe the Gospel as presented in the Bible in 1 Cor. 15: Christ died for our sins according the Scriptures, with the burial proving that, and then He rose bodily from the grave, as proven by 500 witnesses. Do you believe some other gospel?
And please enlighten us. How is the "dispensational scheme," as you put it, a "denial of the work of Christ"? Christ and His glory is at the center of dispensationalism. I believe in the incarnation, virgin birth, perfect and sinless life, substitutionary atonement by the death on the cross for our sins, resurrection, and second coming of Christ. Do you believe in something different about Christ?
It goes all back to when any of us think that we now have Apostolic theology understanding, that we feel that we can state with certainity that if you are a Calvinist, or a non calvinist, or a Dispy or a CT, or hold to this mode pf baptist, etc that all with yoiur view are great, but those against are all wrong pretty much
The truth is that we all read and understand the bible thru a glass dimly
I'd love for easternstar to stand up and be counted as to why he/she is so nasty against dispensationalists. Apparently he doesn't think we can be saved. Then there are kyredneck and SovereignGrace who who gave him thumbs, up apparently agreeing that we cannot be saved since we are dispensationalists. Stand up and be an adult. All three of you, tell me howI have denied the true gospel and the work of Christ by being a dispensationalist.
Dispensationalists take the Bible literally for exactly what it says, and love it as God's Word. How is that reading the Bible (I capitalize it) "through a glass darkly"?
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Not correct. Israel (Jacob) had twelve sons who became the twelve tribes of Israel, Judah being one of those tribes.
The northern 10 tribes were conquered by Asseria and dispersed, never to be seen again.
The southern two, Judah and Benjamin, essentially were absorbed into one (Judah) after the Babylonian dispersion and return because Benjamin was so small.
Peace to you
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
In post #44, @easternstar made this bizarre statement:”Wouldn't say the Mosaic sacrifices were blasphemous, but they weren't instituted by God, either.”
Does easternstar think Leviticus is apocrypha?
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
"That there is no conflict between the Law and the Gospel of the Grace of God is plain enough in Romans 3:31: “Do we then make void the Law through Faith?
God forbid: yea, we establish the Law.”
"Here the Apostle anticipates an objection which was likely to be brought against what he said in verses 26-30."
26 "To declare, I say, at this time His Righteousness:
that He might be Just, and the Justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 "Where is boasting then? It is excluded.
By what Law? of works? Nay: but by the Law of Faith.
28 "Therefore we conclude that a man is Justified by Faith without the deeds of the Law.
29 "Is He the God of the Jews only? is He not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 "Seeing it is One God,
which shall Justify the Circumcision by Faith, and Uncircumcision through Faith."
"Does not the teaching that Justification is entirely by Grace through Faith evince that God has relaxed His Claims, changed the Standard of His Requirements, set aside the Demands of His government? Very far from it.
"The Divine Plan of Redemption is in no way an annulling of the Law, but rather the Honoring and Enforcing of it. No greater respect could have been shown to the Law than in God’s Determining to save His people from its course by sending His Co-Equal Son to Fulfill all its Requirements and Himself Endure its Penalty.
"Oh, marvel of marvels; the Great Legislator Humbled Himself unto entire Obedience to the Precepts of the Decalogue. The very One Who Gave the Law became Incarnate, bled and died, under its condemning sentence, rather than that a tittle thereof should fail. Magnified thus was the Law indeed, and for ever “made Honorable.” God’s Method of Salvation by Grace has “established the Law”.
"...it was necessary for us to expose and denounce that teaching which insists that much in the Bible has no immediate application unto us today. Such teaching is a reckless and irreverent handling of the Word, which has produced the most evil consequences in the hearts and lives of many—not the least of which is the promotion of a pharisaical spirit of self-superiority.
"Consciously or unconsciously, Dispensationalists are, in reality, repeating the sin of Jehoiakim, who mutilated God’s Word with his penknife (Jeremiah 36:23). Instead of “opening the Scriptures,” they are bent in closing the major part of them from God’s people today.
"They are just as much engaged in doing the devil’s work as are the Higher Critics, who, with their dissecting knives, are wrongly “dividing the Word of Truth.” They are seeking to force a stone down the throats of those who are asking for bread.
"These are indeed severe and solemn indictments, but not more so than the case calls for. We are well aware that they will be unacceptable unto some of our own readers; but medicine, though sometimes necessary, is rarely palatable.
"Instead of being engaged in the unholy work of pitting one part of the Scriptures against another, these men would be far better employed in showing the Perfect Unity of the Bible and the Blessed Harmony which there is between all of its teachings.
"But instead of demonstrating the concord of the two Testaments, they are more concerned in their efforts to show the discord which they say there is between that which pertained unto “the Dispensation of Law” and that which obtains under “the Dispensation of Grace,” and in order to accomplish their evil design all sound principles of exegesis are cast to the wind.
"As a sample of what we have reference to, they cite “Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Exodus 21:24) and then quote against it, “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also” (Matthew 5:39), and then it is exultantly asserted that those two passages can only be “reconciled” by allocating them to different peoples in different ages; and with such superficial handling of Holy Writ thousands of gullible souls are deceived, and thousands more allow themselves to be bewildered."
From A Study of Dispensationalism BY ARTHUR W. PINK
Alan Dale Gross
Active Member
"The Old Testament saints were the subjects of the same Everlasting Covenant of Grace, had the same blessed Gospel, and were begotten unto the same Celestial Heritage as the New Testament saints.
"From Adam and Eve, and Abel onwards, God has Dealt with sinners in Sovereign Grace, and according to the Merits of Christ’s Redemptive Work —which was retroactive in its Value and Efficacy (Romans 3:25; 1 Peter 1:19, 20).
“Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord” (Genesis 6:8).
"That they were partakers of the same Covenant Blessings as we are is clear from a comparison of 2 Samuel 23:5, and Hebrews 13:20.
"The same Gospel was preached unto Abraham (Galatians 3:8), yea, unto the nation of Israel after they had received the Law (Hebrews 4:2), and therefore Abraham rejoiced to see Christ’s Day and was Glad (John 8:56).
"Dying Jacob declared, “I have waited for Thy salvation, O Lord” (Genesis 49:18).
"As Hebrews 11:16 states, the Patriarchs desired “a better country [than the land of Canaan, in which they dwelt], that is, an Heavenly.”
"Moses “refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter...esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt” (Hebrews 11:24-26).
"Job exclaimed, “I know that my Redeemer liveth...in my flesh shall I see God” (Job 19:25, 26).
"When Jehovah proclaimed His Name unto Moses, He revealed Himself as “the Lord, the Lord God, Merciful and Gracious” (Exodus 34:5-7).
"When Aaron pronounced the benediction on the congregation, he was bidden to say, “The Lord bless thee, and keep thee: the Lord make His face shine upon thee, and be Gracious unto thee: the Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee Peace” (Numbers 6:24- 26).
"No greater and grander blessings can be invoked today. Such a passage as that cannot possibly be harmonized with the constricted concept which is entertained and is being propagated by the Dispensationalists of the Mosaic economy.
"God dealt in Grace with Israel all through their long and checkered history.
"Read through the book of Judges and observe how often He raised up Deliverers for them.
"Pass on to Kings and Chronicles and note His longsuffering benignity in sending them Prophet after Prophet. Where in the New Testament is there a word which, for pure Grace, exceeds “though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow” (Isaiah 1:18)?
"In the days of Jehoahaz “the Lord was Gracious unto them” (2 Kings 13:22-23). They were invited to say unto the Lord, “Take away all iniquity, and receive us Graciously” (Hosea 14:2).
"Malachi bade Israel “beseech God that He will be Gracious unto us” (Malachi 1:9). The conception which the pious remnant of Israel had of the Divine Character during the Mosaic economy was radically different from the stern and forbidding presentation made thereof by Dispensationalists.
"Hear the Psalmist as he declared, “Gracious is the Lord, and Righteous; yea, our God is Merciful” (Psalm 116:5). Hear him again, as he bursts forth into adoring praise, “Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities, Who healeth all thy diseases...He hath not dealt with us after our sins, nor rewarded us according to our iniquities” (Psalm 103:2, 3, 10).
"Can Christians say more than that? No wonder David exclaimed, “Whom have I in Heaven but Thee? And there is none upon earth that I desire besides Thee. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the Strength of my heart, and my Portion for ever” (Psalm 73:25, 26).
"If the question be asked, What, then, is the great distinction between the Mosaic and Christian eras?
"The answer is,
God’s Grace was then confirmed to one nation, but now it flows out to all nations.
"What is true in the general holds in the particular. Not only were God’s dealings with His people during Old Testament times substantially the same as those with His people now, but in detail too. There is no discord, but perfect accord and concord between them.
"Note carefully the following parallelisms.
“His Inheritance in the saints” (Ephesians 1:18):
“The Lord’s Portion is His people, Jacob is the lot of His inheritance” (Deuteronomy 32:9).
“Beloved of the Lord,
because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation” (2 Thessalonians 2:13):
“I have Loved thee with an Everlasting love” (Jeremiah 31:3).
“In Whom we have Redemption” (Ephesians 1:7):
“With Him is plenteous Redemption” (Psalm 130:7).
“That we might be made the Righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21):
“In the Lord have I Righteousness and Strength” (Isaiah 45:24).
“Who hath blessed us with all Spiritual Blessings...in Christ” (Ephesians 1:3):
“Men shall be blessed in Him” (Psalm 72:17).
“The Blood of Jesus Christ His Son Cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7):
“Thou art all fair, My love, there is no spot in thee” (Song of Solomon 4:7).
“Strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man” (Ephesians 3:16):
“In the day when I cried Thou Answeredst me, and Strengthenedst me with Strength in my soul” (Psalm 138:3).
“The Spirit of Truth... will Guide you into all Truth” (John 16:13):
“Thou gavest also Thy good Spirit to instruct them” (Nehemiah 9:20).
“I know that in me (that is, in my flesh), dwelleth no good thing” (Romans 7:18):
“All our righteousness are as filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6).
“I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims” (1 Peter 2:11):
“Ye are strangers and sojourners” (Leviticus 25:23).
“We walk by Faith” (2 Corinthians 5:7):
“The just shall live by His Faith” (Hab. 2:4).
“Strong in the Lord” (Ephesians 6:10):
“I will strengthen them in the Lord” (Zechariah 10:12).
“Neither shall any pluck them out of My Hand” (John 10:28):
“All His saints are in Thy Hand” (Deuteronomy 33:3).
“He that Abideth in Me, and I in Him, the Same bringeth forth much fruit” (John 15:5):
“From Me is thy fruit found” (Hosea 14:8).
“He which hath begun a Good Work in you will Finish it” (Philippians 1:6, margin): “The Lord will Perfect that which concerneth me” (Psalm 138:8)."
From A Study of Dispensationalism BY ARTHUR W. PINK
"Innumerable other such harmonies might be added."
Wow, I missed that! It certainly is strange.
I ignore Pink, and here's why from a biography of him:
From Richard P. Belcher, Arthur W. Pink—Born to Write (Richberry Press, 2013)
- “He came to the conviction that God is the primary teacher and that man really needs no one else to teach him” (p. 28).
- As a young man, he enrolled in Moody Bible Institute for summer school, but dropped out without even finishing that class. “Perhaps it was his strong individualistic spirit that made it difficult for him to submit to any human authority” (p. 25).
- “He wrestled with God’s will for his life, and…faced recurring depths of despair and a nervous breakdown” (p. 41).
- He pastored for two years, then quit the church (p. 44).
- In 1919 he suffered from deep depression. He tried to go to the church to preach but could not even make it out of bed (p. 49).
- “He was not a sociable person. He did not seem to enjoy being with and fellowshipping with people” (p. 58).
- He split a church in Australia over his view of predestination (p. 78). (The Australian church was also Calvinist.)
- He and his wife moved to England, and on a ship with 500 people he couldn’t find any Christians he could fellowship with, and evidently did not win anyone to Christ (p. 86).
- “Doors remained shut and he was more convinced than ever that apostasy and darkness had surely settled over Christendom” (p. 96).
- He rejected premillennialism and was a “thorough-going amillennialist” (p. 105).
- He was “admonishing people to withdraw from their local churches” (p. 111).
- “Twice in 1938 he informed readers that he would not receive visitors who called at his home” (p. 112).
- Living in England at the end of his life, he showed little love for the lost or saved, refusing to go to any church for the last 14 years of his life (Cf. pp. 111-112).
And the levites
1 Chro 11:14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest's office unto the LORD:
People who reject the dispensational framework of the scriptures are rejecting the key that unlocks the mysteries of God. There is no excuse for it except ignorance and unbelief. The only way to have these truths made known to the human mind is to believe the words God has given to us and in order to believe the words is to have them taught by the Spirit of Christ who God has given as a gift to those who have believed his words. You cannot have one without the other.
Paul, one of the most brilliant minds ever on earth said this in the context of the mystery of God.
1 Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
That is where everyone must begin no matter how smart you are.
He goes on to say this.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Paul wrote these words to this church in 54 AD but because of their carnality, demonstrated by their division over personalities, he could not teach them the mystery of Christ and it was not until 60 AD that he taught it to a much more mature church, the Ephesians. You should read Eph 3 now.
Paul calls this "my gospel" a total of 7 times in his 13 letters and the gospel of God another 3 times and whether anyone likes it or not, the number 10 is associated metaphorically with gentiles and has a specific application. It is the gospel of grace and in Ephesians he said this about it.
Ep 3:22 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation (when he did not know anything but Jesus Christ and him crucified) he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages (that is the OT ages) was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Religious men who study books and literature that someone else writes and do not get the revelation of these mysteries for themselves from God and other Spirit filled men and dismiss the divisions of the Scriptures into the dispensational framework might as well say they are from that part of the Christian religion that does not believe the words of the scriptures and has chosen men they consider to be the wise men of the world as their teachers
God has shown the world that you don't believe the words, and the mysteries of the faith are hidden in those words, he himself chose. You changed the words and deleted thousands of them in some cases and you have eliminated the way that God says in 1 Cor 2 of making the mysteries known. You will never understand the rapture of the church because you don't believe the words. You will not be able to see the church and how is is predestined to be glorified at the rapture when it is gathered together by the Lord in the air and then translated from earth to the Father's house, where there are many mansions just before he begins the 7 fold purification of his covenant nation Israel on the earth in preparation for his earthly kingdom.
1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself;
1 Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries
They were all revealed because he started out knowing nothing.
I will start a thread later and we can talk about some of these mysteries.
Paul, one of the most brilliant minds ever on earth said this in the context of the mystery of God.
1 Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
That is where everyone must begin no matter how smart you are.
He goes on to say this.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
Paul wrote these words to this church in 54 AD but because of their carnality, demonstrated by their division over personalities, he could not teach them the mystery of Christ and it was not until 60 AD that he taught it to a much more mature church, the Ephesians. You should read Eph 3 now.
Paul calls this "my gospel" a total of 7 times in his 13 letters and the gospel of God another 3 times and whether anyone likes it or not, the number 10 is associated metaphorically with gentiles and has a specific application. It is the gospel of grace and in Ephesians he said this about it.
Ep 3:22 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation (when he did not know anything but Jesus Christ and him crucified) he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages (that is the OT ages) was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Religious men who study books and literature that someone else writes and do not get the revelation of these mysteries for themselves from God and other Spirit filled men and dismiss the divisions of the Scriptures into the dispensational framework might as well say they are from that part of the Christian religion that does not believe the words of the scriptures and has chosen men they consider to be the wise men of the world as their teachers
God has shown the world that you don't believe the words, and the mysteries of the faith are hidden in those words, he himself chose. You changed the words and deleted thousands of them in some cases and you have eliminated the way that God says in 1 Cor 2 of making the mysteries known. You will never understand the rapture of the church because you don't believe the words. You will not be able to see the church and how is is predestined to be glorified at the rapture when it is gathered together by the Lord in the air and then translated from earth to the Father's house, where there are many mansions just before he begins the 7 fold purification of his covenant nation Israel on the earth in preparation for his earthly kingdom.
1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4 For I know nothing by myself;
1 Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries
They were all revealed because he started out knowing nothing.
I will start a thread later and we can talk about some of these mysteries.
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I also take prophecy literal, but do also see how the scriptures do support other viewpoints
Think what many object to most would be the pretrib view of premil eschatology