Dispensationalism

[jilphn1022]

Did this thought come from the Plymouth Brethren ( J.N.Darby)?

Did C. I. Scofield contribute to this system in his reference Bible with his footnotes?

Is this ism Biblically-sound?

Moderator: There is a similar discussion in progress in the Baptist debate,
but I thought that those who are not members of the Baptist church might
like to discuss this subject since this was founded by a Plymouth Brethren namely
J. N. Darby?.

 

[webdog]

Started much earlier than that...thousands, in fact

 

[Jim1999]

Yes, history attributes the foundng of dispenationalism to John Nelson Darby, and the Plymouth Brethren. It was brought to America in late 1800's and was popularized by the Scofield Reference Bible and Clarence Larkin charts.

Cheers,

Jim

This is the wrong forum for this topic, however. This is a fellowship forum and not for debate.

 

[Fred Moritz]

Premillennialism can be found in the writings of Justin Martyr, Hermas, Papias, and Irenaeus. I refer you to the book Premillennial Essays edited by the Presbyterian Nathaniel West. He wrote a chapter on "The History of the Pre-Millennial Doctrine" that takes up 91 pages in the book. It is a History of Christian Doctrine classic on the subject.

If you will read the writings of Hubmaier and other genuine Anabaptists you will find that they drew a clear distinction between Israel and the Church.

Some of our Reformed brethren (and I genuinely regard you as brethren) like to hang the "Johnny come lately" tag on Dispensationalism by attributing it to Darby. But biblical elements of Dispensationalism have been around far longer than the invention of Reformed Theology with the Dutchman Coccesius and his imagined "Covenant of Works." At least the Reformed Theologians Charles Hodge and John Gerstner have admitted in writing that such a covenant is not found in Scripture.

A. H. Strong has a great line where he observes: "That covenant was made in Holland."

 

[jilphn1022]

I am in full agreement with your post.
I goofed on where I put this thread.
I do not know how to move this thread to the thread
titled: Other Christian Denominations


Jim1999
This is the wrong forum for this topic, however. This is a fellowship forum and not for debate.

 

[Tom Butler]

I don't think you can move a thread--only the moderators.

On the menu page, to the right of the All Other Discussions category, find the moderators' names and follow the links to send one of them a message with your request.

 

[jilphn1022]

Thank you, Tom Butler!

 

[billwald]

Baptists were "reformed" until Darby and his ilk (always wanted an ilk <G>)
invented dispensationalism. Some still are.

 

[hillclimber1]

The apostle Paul laid out dispensationalism under the direction of the Holy Spirit... He's the one that brings the Good News to everyone, inclusive of Jews, and disassociates us from the Messianic Kingdom.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the definition of 'dispensation' is that people don't like. I think I might not even support their definition of the term 'dispensation' - but nobody wants to define the term:sleep:

Meanwhile here is Ed's essay on God's Economy:

The word 'dispensation' has to mean what these verses say:

-------------------------------------

God's Economy:

​

Dispensation in the NT, KJV1769 family of editions (bolding by Ed):

1 Corinthians 9:17 (KJV1769):
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward:
but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel
is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 (KJV1769):
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might
gather together in one all things in Christ, both
which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2 (KJV1769):
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God
which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 (KJV1769):
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation
of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

The Holy Spirit hasn't shown me a lot more than is here. I do know the Greek word being translated here as 'dispensation' is the Greek word from which we get 'economy'.

I do know (IN SUMMARY OF THE BIBLE off the top of my head) that this is what the economy of God is like:

Bible Prophetic times:
'hour' = the appropriate time
'day' = the appropriate time
or '1 day' = 1,000 years
'½-week' = 3½-years
'1 day' = 'week' = 7 years
'month' = the appropriate time
year = the appropriate time

Other 'economy of God facts':

the blind see
the dead live
the deaf hear
the lame leap like deer
the first is last
the last is first
Jesus Saves (totally!)
God Rules!!

Frequently the Bible discusses what is to be is discussed in either present tense (is done) or past tense (done already done).

So a study of Greek tenses is generally frustrating. Us human type people can only do one day at a time. God can do every day at a time - I think God may have invented all the days at the same time?

-------------------------------------

Now that this topic is in the All other Religions Forum, we already had a discussion going on for Baptists & all over at this topic:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=54854&page=9

feel free to join us, especially if you have a definition of the term 'dispensation'

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

Premillennialism can be found in the writings of Justin Martyr, Hermas, Papias, and Irenaeus. I refer you to the book Premillennial Essays edited by the Presbyterian Nathaniel West. He wrote a chapter on "The History of the Pre-Millennial Doctrine" that takes up 91 pages in the book. It is a History of Christian Doctrine classic on the subject.

If you will read the writings of Hubmaier and other genuine Anabaptists you will find that they drew a clear distinction between Israel and the Church.

Some of our Reformed brethren (and I genuinely regard you as brethren) like to hang the "Johnny come lately" tag on Dispensationalism by attributing it to Darby. But biblical elements of Dispensationalism have been around far longer than the invention of Reformed Theology with the Dutchman Coccesius and his imagined "Covenant of Works." At least the Reformed Theologians Charles Hodge and John Gerstner have admitted in writing that such a covenant is not found in Scripture.

A. H. Strong has a great line where he observes: "That covenant was made in Holland."

Some Reformed theologians have been premillenial but not dispensational. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand.

 

[Palatka51]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the definition of 'dispensation' is that people don't like. I think I might not even support their definition of the term 'dispensation' - but nobody wants to define the term:sleep:

Ed or Jim1999,

Wasn't there another fellow that had another annotated bible in print called the Dake Study Bible that went much deeper than C.I. Scofield?

 

[Palatka51]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the definition of 'dispensation' is that people don't like. I think I might not even support their definition of the term 'dispensation' - but nobody wants to define the term

I believe that dispensation means dispersal or spreading out, as in broadcasting.

The Grace of God has existed sense the beginning only that it was local, yet was available to all that came in contact with its messenger. Noah, David, Naaman (Syrian gentile), Ninevites (at the teaching of Jonah) and others before Pentecost. At the time of Pentecost it was then and forevermore broadcast to the whole world.

I am not a subscriber to this barriers of time or ages that God must work in as is the teaching of Scofeild or Dake.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Sorry folks, we live in a 3G* world.

*Note for the technically behind: Refers to the three GigaByte phones now for sale. When I was on my first bulletin board (bb) I used a computer called a Comodore64 where '64' meant 64,000 bytes of memory. The 3G computers have 3,000,000,000 bytes (or maybe 3 Million times 1024 bytes, hard to tell). that would be3 16,000 times as much memory (for about 1/4 the price - the phones won't give you hernia either).

 

[DHK]

I believe that dispensation means dispersal or spreading out, as in broadcasting.

The Grace of God has existed sense the beginning only that it was local, yet was available to all that came in contact with its messenger. Noah, David, Naaman (Syrian gentile), Ninevites (at the teaching of Jonah) and others before Pentecost. At the time of Pentecost it was then and forevermore broadcast to the whole world.

I am not a subscriber to this barriers of time or ages that God must work in as is the teaching of Scofeild or Dake.

The Grace of God has been existent in every dispensation or period of time that we see God working through His people. I am not a subscriber to these man-made so-called theological systems of thought that people call "Calvinism," also known under a variety of other names such as "Reformed theology," somehow giving the idea that theology has been changed from the time of the Apostles. Mine hasn't.

 

[billwald]

In the bad old days "dispensation" meant era, or age. Like stone age, iron age, industrial era.

Bottom line of Dispensationalism seems to be that God is running a series of experiments to convince humans to buy into his program. Every time a program fails God comes up with a new experiment with new rules.

 

[hillclimber1]

In the bad old days "dispensation" meant era, or age. Like stone age, iron age, industrial era.

Bottom line of Dispensationalism seems to be that God is running a series of experiments to convince humans to buy into his program. Every time a program fails God comes up with a new experiment with new rules.

In each age God has tried to save man. Each age can be characterized as a failure if numbers of "saved" is the measurement.... We happen to be in the most free, open, no rules dispensation in history, and I'm afraid the numbers will not be great here either....

But in the Millennial Reign of Christ, billions upon billions will be saved for the new creation.. (new earth) my humble opinion...

 

[Marcia]

Ed or Jim1999,

Wasn't there another fellow that had another annotated bible in print called the Dake Study Bible that went much deeper than C.I. Scofield?

The Dake Study Bible is full of unbibical stuff - this is where many of the Word-Faith teachers get their material. It has notes that promote unbiblical and heretical views of God's nature such as teaching that God has a body, that Jesus became the Christ at his baptism, and contradictory teachings on the Trinity.

See these for more info:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/d46.html

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/dakes.html

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache...le+errors+word+faith&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us


http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/dakes_bible.htm

 

[Marcia]

In the bad old days "dispensation" meant era, or age. Like stone age, iron age, industrial era.

Bottom line of Dispensationalism seems to be that God is running a series of experiments to convince humans to buy into his program. Every time a program fails God comes up with a new experiment with new rules.

This is not what disp. teaches.

Almost all attacks on the BB on dispensationalism are straw men - they attack beliefs that are not dispensational - at least the way I've learned of it. But of course, this is never acknowledged. People just keep at it, using the same old stuff.

 

[billwald]

OK, in one sentence, how did you learn it?