Dispensationalists

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Only being truthful. I said those you accuse of saying such things were not me. I’ve never told you, you are a heretic, have I? I have never told you, you were not saved. You left out what I believe could be exaggeration from your last post, to wit – “gnostics; quacks; liars; ignorant; devoid of reason, truth, reality, or intellectual honesty; obscene; evil and sinful; and either a lying dog or a blind drunk”. I don’t tell the saved these things, and would hope you have some bad information in your accusations of those fellow Christians. As you know, in the heat of battle things are said, but better left unsaid, and I have from your side some of the same things said about me, and those you speak of.

All I said was what I said, i.e. you don’t see the dispensational gospel that Christ gave to Paul. I believe the gospel of Paul and He said that Christ from heaven gave to him, Paul, a dispensational gospel. You don’t see that, and what you don’t see is unknown to you. So I can see why you perhaps really do believe I am arrogant for I gave advice to ask.

Again you err not knowing Scripture. Please don't insult Paul by calling him a dispensationalist. He preceded Darby's dispensationalism by 1700 + years. By the way was Darby carried up to the third heaven?

OK, I’ll admit to being “proud”. My “DI” informed me He was God and I was his while he had me. I believed and did everything he told me to do, and he had a purpose, and that was to teach me to defend and protect, and do unto others what they would do to me in time of war, and be always faithful.

We soldiers of Christ hold a sword never to be dulled. It is His Word>>>”For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God, which is given me to you-ward: 3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery, Ephesians 3:1-3. Here I’ll say what I said before to you, in love. Choose one of those things above that will fit you for you are saying Christ did not give Paul his dispensational gospel, and this dispensation gospel is Paul’s gospel to spread to the whole world. This is the “grace commission” from Christ Jesus in Heaven.

Lot’s of people say lots of things, and I don’t believe a lot of things that people say. You just mentioned one of them, but at least Darby thought he was righteous in Christ.

Would you believe Billy Graham if he said this (third heaven)? I wouldn’t, for the reason that Billy Graham is not sure of His salvation. He is not sure he is righteous enough. Go figure. He does not believe as I, (don't know about you). If you believe you are going to heaven in Christ Jesus (He has made us righteous), then you believe more like Darby than you do Billy Graham.

Your response is not revelant to my point #6. That was between EE and me. </font>[/QUOTE]

Your response is not revelant to my point #7. That was between EE and me. </font>[/QUOTE]But you brought it to me to answer, and I did that. I wonder what EE thinks of that? Can he trust you now as you plagiarize? Next thing you know you’ll be repeating what I say, claiming it to be your own until someone (in this case cov) catches it. But that is OK with me. Wisdom is where you find it, and it is free. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

Ituttut probably to OldRegular: //You believe you are going through the tribulation? Then you may get your wish. //

Check their beliefs closely. They believe they
already in the tribulation.

 

Anyway, back to Dispensations:

I gave these scriptures earlier.
Nobody argued against my statements.

Col 1:26 (KJV1769):
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages
and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

*There were ages before this age.

Eph 1:21 (nKJV):
far above all principality and power and might and dominion,
and every name that is named, not only in this age
but also in that which is to come.

*there is an age to follow this age

I believe the age before the first physical
advent of Jesus ended on the birth of Jesus
(actually on his 8th day which was 1 Jan 0001AD.
The age we live in began at Pentacost.
From 1AD to 33AD was not in the last age
nor in the present age.

 

Ituttut

I am just going to respond to a couple of your points. You say:

Am I to infer that there were no Christians before Anyioch. What about the 11 apostles and the 500 or so who saw Jesus Christ before His ascension. What about the 3000 who were added on the day of Pentecost [Acts 2:41] and those the Lord added to the Church daily as they were saved [Acts 2:47].

According to your logic even Paul was not even a Christian.

You also state:

You misquote Paul. He did not say God gave Him a dispensational gospel. There is no such thing as a dispensational gospel, it is a false gospel. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ of which the Apostle Paul spoke in Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

Unlike some we believe what Jesus Christ taught:

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

 

But there is a tribulation unlike any that we or anyone else has ever endured:

1769 KJV Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I am old enough to remember World War II in which globally 48,231,700 people perished, 6 million people were incinerated in the crematoriums of Germany/Poland, firestorms destroyed entire cities in Europe and the first nuclear devices (the power of the sun) were detonated upon the face of the earth.

Yet, Jesus said that even this would not match this Great Tribulation He spoke of in Matthew 24.

HankD

 

But there is a tribulation unlike any that we or anyone else has ever endured:

1769 KJV Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I am old enough to remember World War II in which globally 48,231,700 people perished, 6 million people were incinerated in the crematoriums of Germany/Poland, firestorms destroyed entire cities in Europe and the first nuclear devices (the power of the sun) were detonated upon the face of the earth.

Yet, Jesus said that even this would not match this Great Tribulation He spoke of in Matthew 24.

HankD </font>[/QUOTE]I am also old enough to remember WWII. Since 1973 we have killed more than 40,000,000 babies in this country alone.

That being said talking about the Great Tribulation in terms of numbers is meaningless. God deals with us as individuals. We will undergo tribulation as individuals, whether it is we who suffer or those we love. What could be worse than being eaten alive as the early Christians were or being coated with pitch and burned to provide light for Nero's partytime?

Christians have always suffered Great Tribulation and will until Jesus Christ returns the second time without sin unto salvation [Hebrews 9:29, 1769 KJV], at which time there will be a general resurrection of all the dead followed by the great White Throne judgment, and the new heavens and earth.

Actually Hank the power of the sun is fusion not fission.

 

Not according to Jesus words.

Matthew 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

FWIW brother, I agree with you completely concerning personal tribulation (just not the definition/meaning and specifics of "Great Tribulation" in Matthew 24).

My error, you are correct, however a fission trigger is used to effect fusion.

HankD

 

Matthew 2
17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.



HankD

 

Wow. This discussion is meandering too far and too fast to follow. All I'm going to say is this:

--I am a dispensationalist.
--I was a member of dispensationalist churches for 18 years.
--During that time, I never heard most of the wierd claims that non-dispensationalists claim are taught by dispensationalists. I deny most of them, too.
--God has only one "plan" of salvation: faith. This was true in the OT as well as the new.
--God made some ETERNAL promises to Israel. He will fullfull them. (see Abraham & the land, for example)
--I know of no one who believes that God is still dealing with humans the same was as He did Adam & Eve in the garden.
--I know of no one who believes that God is currently dealing with humans the same as He will for all eternity in the future.
--That makes at least three methods of dealing with humans. (Eden, now, and future)

So what's the big deal if we also list pre-Moses and Moses? I just don't get all the hoopla. I don't believe that wacko stuff, and I don't know anyone who does.


Jude 3

 

Good read

 

Not according to Jesus words.

Matthew 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

</font>[/QUOTE]Jesus Christ is really talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in this part of Matthew 24.

By the way you and I are the elect.

 

I understand and respect what you believe. I believe differently.

We'll just have to wait and see and I promise I won't gloat.

HankD

 

[/qb]The “little differences” just popped up. I believe the age of Israel progressed through to another Nazarite chosen of God. Matthew 11:12-13, ”And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”

I see a dispensation beginning before the birth of Jesus. We also see in this chapter that Jesus was not a “Nazarite”, but He was of the town of Nazareth, and John was not.

Time then flies from Samson through David and the prophets to John the Baptist. Then the wonderful birth of our Lord the Word, whose name is Jesus Christ, which became the name by which all are saved. This Old Testament carried forward to the New Testament of His blood, but after one year from Pentecost, at the stoning of Stephen, Israel was cut-off. Some Israelites were still being individually saved, and preached only to Israelites, and proselytes could still come.

A few years later then Damascus Road, and not long afterward Cornelius, the first Gentile receives the Holy Ghost, without repentance, confession or water baptism. Something New here without a doubt. Christianity was born in Antioch, and not Jerusalem. This is the same body that no one knew about, but a different building on the foundation of Jesus Christ, than that of the Israelites. This means two different gospels then, and evidently two different gospels are still being taught today. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12

 

OldRegular

Am I to infer that there were no Christians before Anyioch. What about the 11 apostles and the 500 or so who saw Jesus Christ before His ascension. What about the 3000 who were added on the day of Pentecost [Acts 2:41] and those the Lord added to the Church daily as they were saved [Acts 2:47].

According to your logic even Paul was not even a Christian.

It is not an inference, but a fact as His Word says the word Christian came into being at Antioch, and that is where Paul was based, and not in Jerusalem, as that was Peter’s, and then James’ church. Paul had nothing to do with it, or they Him, up to a point when some did leave the church of works, and James.

All those were of the kingdom church of Jesus Christ, but they were not called Christian’s, as there was no Gentile there saved only by the Grace of through faith. Acts. 2:37-38 show the Jew is saved BY (at that time) “repenting and being water baptized for the remission of sins.” We cannot change the message that Peter was given to preach to the Jew.

The logic is that those before Paul were not called Christian’s, and were not for they were not saved free of first doing a work, and repenting.

You also state:

You misquote Paul. He did not say God gave Him a dispensational gospel. There is no such thing as a dispensational gospel, it is a false gospel. There is only one Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ of which the Apostle Paul spoke in Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. </font>[/QUOTE][qb]I quoted scripture, so you must be reading some book that somebody wrote that doesn’t understand, or they misquote the Bible. What I gave was from the KJV, and all the other translations acceptable say the same thing.

Paul is not ashamed of His dispensational gospel, and so states in Romans 1:16. Paul went to the Jew first, and then as Jesus Christ tells us, through Paul, that Paul will go to the uncircumcised as they will believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ from heaven. Acts 28:28.

I believe His Word and not a Sunday school quarterly if it is wrong, a fictional or non-fictional novel, or any other written or oral word from anybody if it is not scriptural.

Give me a scripture where salvation stopped with His blood on the ground. His blood is in heaven where we are baptized by Him. He said let the dead bury the dead, and follow Him. Where did He go. He went to heaven, and I am there with Him right this instance, in Spirit and Soul, and this old body will join my New Birth in Him in a new glorified body. Christian faith, ituttut Galatians 1:11-12.

 

Don’t understand how you can be a dispensationalist when not believing in the dispensations of God.

If He only had one plan of salvation then why does He tell us differently?

Amen to “faith”, but only it is we today that come through. Abraham didn’t, or Moses, David, John the Baptist are any of the others. Not until Paul are we told the Gentile comes differently, and today there is no nation of Israel. God has not forgotten His people, has allowed them to join we idol worshipers, so they be saved just as we, and that is through faith and this faith is not found in the Old Testament of Israel.

It is Jesus Christ’s faith that saves, and not ours, so you are correct if you will put it that way, for none can come to the Father except through Him. But we have to believe in this dispensation we cannot approach the Father by faith, as He does not recognize any of His people today.

Meet wacko HumbleSmith, who hangs out with one they thought wacko before He was crucified, and afterwards. I met Him through another wacko that had talked to the first wacko (so named by man) and saw His glory. We call Him by another name. The Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, our savior.

WeAreConsecratedKooksObviously, awaiting that “oddball” the world rejects.

 

Humblesmith: //God made some ETERNAL promises to Israel. He will fullfull them.//

Amen, Brother Humblesmith -- preach it!

Humblesmith: //--During that time, I never heard most of the wierd claims that non-dispensationalists claim are taught by dispensationalists. I deny most of them, too.//

Amen, Brother Humblesmith -- preach it!

 

Now we have two ways of Salvation,

1. saved only by the Grace of through faith

2. repenting and being water baptized for the remission of sins

Weird! Heretical! take your pick!

In the Name of God what does John 3:16 mean; what does Genesis 15:6 mean? You are spewing hyper-dispensationalism of the worst sort.