Originally posted by bmerr:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Since you believe that baptism is needed for salvation what of the thief on the cross?
The thief on the cross (ttoc) was unquestionably saved, but under what Testament? Under the NT, men are saved when they believe and obey the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Since ttoc was speaking to a still living Christ, he was still under the OT. There were no NT conversions until Acts 2:41.
</font>[/QUOTE]Baptism in not needed for salvation. That is one of the oldest heresies known to Christendom. To believe so is to believe a pagan superstition borrowed from Hinduism that water can wash away sins. It is a pagan superstition. Here is an exposition of Eph.2:8,9 that shows how it is impossibe for baptism to be part of salvation. I posted it in another thread. But instead of explaining the whole thing all over again, thought that I would just paste it in here.
I am honest, and quite frankly this is one of the lamest arguments I have ever encountered. By using it you align yourself with occult and witchcraft. You suggest that certain words have certain powers just like incantations, curses, spells, and so on. In other words you don't believe that the English language has synonyms and can use other words to exress the same thing. You readliy admit that the word Trinity is not in the Bible, but you believe in it anyway. But somehow you want the Baptist, the Protestant to find the magical incantation "Faith Alone...Faith Alone...Faith Alone...Faith Alone..." as if the phrase itself must be found in the Bible in order to be true. That, my friend, is a teaching of the occult. We don't believe in spells and incantations. We believe what the Bible teaches. Here is what the Bible teaches. I will be honewst. Will you?
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
"By grace are ye saved"
This has nothing to do with baptism, sacraments, man's works, or any other similar thing. It is one way of saying: faith alone. Let's see how many ways Paul emphasizes this point in these two verses.
The grace referred to is God's grace. Grace literally means "the free unmerited gift of God." It is an undeserved gift; that which we do not deserve. Those things like sunshine and rain are a result of God's grace to mankind. We don't deserve the sunshine and rain. We haven't worked for them. We have done nothing to merit them, but God gives us the sunshine and rain in spite of our sinfulness and rebellion against him. And not just to us, but to the whole world--to the most sinful and rebellious creatures you can think of--he graciously gives sunshine and rain. That is the grace of God. It is Him giving even when we don't deserve it. Here is a good definition given by Paul:
Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Paul states if there is any amount of work done; then it is not grace. Grace is wholly of God. There is no work on man's behalf. It is all of God. If it is all of God, and a gift of God, it can only be accepted by faith and faith alone, for any work (like baptism) would negate the very fact it is grace. It wouldn't be grace if there were works involved, like baptism. That is what Paul is stating in Rom.11:6. Therefore if salvation is by grace, it must be by faith alone.
The grace referred to in Eph.2:8 is specifically speaking of the grace of God in reference to salvation, that is when Christ died on the cross for our sins, and paid the penalty with his blood through his death. He did this out of grace. We didn't deserve it; but he died for us anyway. It was out of his grace; God's grace. We are saved through the grace of God, because Christ paid the penalty for our sins, when nothing else could do. Man cannot pay the penalty for sin. Not through praying the rosary, not through spending time in purgatory, not through baptism, not through any of the sacraments, not through keeping the Ten Commandments, not through anything that you do. Christ paid it all. John 10:30, He uttered the words:
It is finished.
There is nothing that man can do. The work of salvation is finished. Christ paid the entire penalty Himself. It is left to man to accept His work of grace by faith and by faith alone. For by grace are ye saved. By grace he provided a way of salvation--through the blood of Christ--the blood that was shed for us on Calvary--the blood that paid the penalty for our sins. Faith and faith alone in that sacrifice will save a person. For by grace are ye saved.
"through faith This is the next part of the verse in Eph.2:8. We are saved through faith. It is faith in the sacrifice provided by the grace of God. It is faith and faith alone. This is understood. Faith alone is an expression understood, and understood by the most simplest of readers. It doesn't have to say "alone." It is implied and any reader understands that. It does nto say: "faith and baptism," or "faith and sacraments." It says "through faith," with an obvious meaning of "faith alone." This is especially true after stating that we are saved by grace. Paul didn't have to be redundant and state "faith alone" because the very fact that it is through grace tells us that it is by faith alone. If it wasn't by faith alone, then it wouldn't be of grace. Any work involved would negate the definition of grace, therefore it must be by faith alone. Logic demands this. Read again Romans 11:6.
Faith is confidence in the word of another. It has absolutely nothing to do with works. It is trust. So Jesus said you must have faith as a little child. A little child has implicit faith in his parents that they will provide for him. That is what Christ was referring to--the faith.
Do you have faith and faith alone in the sacrifice of Christ, that it is sufficient, in and of itself, to save you and forve your sins? That is salvation by grace through faith. Savation is provided by the grace of God. It is accepted by faith in order to be saved. It is a gift.
"and that not of yourselves" What does this say? It says "Faith alone." Not of yourselves. That means, not of any work that you can do including baptism and any other sacrament or keeping the law or the Ten Commandments. It means doing nothing. "That not of yourself." There is absolutely nothing you can do to merit salvation. It is to be accepted by faith alone; not by baptism or any other work; but by faith alone. "Not of yourself," but by faith, because it is of the grace of God. This is really very simple theology. Paul states over and over again how that salvation is by faith alone. It can be no other way.
Romans 4:4-5 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
"it is not of yourselves."
It is the gift of God
This is the next part of the verse in Eph.2:8, and goes along well with the first part
Salvation is a gift. A gift cannot be earned. It cannot be worked for. It can only be accepted by faith and faith alone. That is what makes it a gift by very definition. Here again Paul emphasizes that it is by faith alone. If salvation is the gift of God, it can only be accepted by faith alone. There is no other way a gift can be accepted. How can one work for a gift. If you work for a gift, then the gift is no longer a gift. It is a debt to be owed for the work that is done.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Verse nine starts out by saying
Not of works another phrase emphasizing "Faith alone." For the very fact that it is not of works it must be by faith alone. How many times has Paul emphasized this now? It is not of works. It is by faith; it is by faith alone. How direct does Paul have to be here. Not Of Works!! It can't be any plainer can it? Those works include baptism, sacraments, Ten Commandments, etc. Any good work that you can think of, it includes.
Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
That is what God thinks of your good works, your righteousnesses--filthy rags. That is all they are good for. They won't help get you to heaven. The only way to heaven is by faith alone in the shed blood of Jesus Christ provided by the grace of God. It is not of works. Put your works away. They are only filthy rags in the sight of God anyway, baptism included. Salvation is not of works; but by faith alone.
Then finally Paul states
lest any man should boast
He says that because if you could get to heaven by baptism or any other religious rite or good work, you would be in Heaven boasting about it: "See what I have done, See what I have done." It wouldn't matter that Jesus Christ paid 99.9999999999999999% of the penalty of your sins. You boast in that little part that you had done to get entrance into heaven. And you would do it for all eternity. You would be sure to remind Christ about it too.
No Christ paid the penalty in full. You have nothing to boast about. He paid the full penalty of the burden of our sins, and not only ours, but of the sins of the whole world. It is by faith and faith alone that we must accept the payment of that penalty--His blood that was shed for us. If we do we will trust him as our Saviuor, admitting that we are guilty sinners deserving only of Hell, and ask his forgiveness on the basis of his sacrifice, once and for all. He paid the penalty of our sins. Will you accept what he has done on the cross as payment for your sins, accepting it by faith and faith alone. That is the teaching here.
DHK
