Diversity of Opinion

I think I'm fighting a loseing battle here,:laugh: I was told that people would manipulate (no offense) the situation of right and wrong music so much that I would never be taken seriouse on this subject. So if you are so sure that CCM is ok to listen to, then why don't you all start telling me what makes CCM so Holy and right in Gods eyes?:type:

 

I think some people may have a problem with some CCM because in the past the harder beats and 'Rock' sound were associated with sex drugs and 'rock n roll'. The article you posted earlier had quotes from rock stars stating that rock was of the devil. The words being sung may have been of the devil but not the beat.

If God can take Paul from a murderer to disciple then why can't he take rock music to preach His love.

It is all in the words, not the beat.

I was an 80's teen, I liked the beat of the music but not the words. I was what the world would call a nerd, not into music and hence not much to talk about with other kids my age. I still have that problem today. Just the other day the discussion was brought up on the best band of all time, Rolling Stones or the Beatles. I have no real knowledge on either because I listen mainly to Christian Music.

I am thankful that today I have music with a good beat but testifying to the Glory of God

 

The same things that make Hymns of faith holy and right in God's eyes.:wavey:

 

CCM is not monolithic. You can't lump it all together. There are some artists out there not living for God. There are some CCM songs that have bad theology.

Just like there are some Southern Gospel/traditional artists and songs out there with the same problem.

I don't think God "cubbyholes" songs related to genres. I doubt He looked at Beethoven's tune "Ode to Joy" (which you know with words as "Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee") and said, "This doesn't sound like the baroque stuff that Bach wrote. I'm not gonna honor it."

"Holy" means "set apart." If a song is written, sung, performed, whatever with the intent of glorifying God, then it's Holy. If it's "right" that means an absence of wrong. Are there lyrics which dishonor God or contradict His commandments? If not, then what's the problem?

Your next argument will probably be that some instruments are more "holy" or "sanctified" than others. You'll have trouble getting that to fly...there's no Scriptural basis for that, and there's plenty of evidence that God has used just about all families of instruments to honor His name.

Finally, who ever told you that folks would "manipulate right and wrong" sound like they are scared to discuss the subject. I'm not scared to...and I back up what I say with scripture. Invite them on to talk about it.

Congrats for hanging in there on this discussion.

 

And what would those things be?:type:

 

How much CCm have you really listened to? Have you heard any Mercy Me, Third Day, Casting Crowns to name a few? They have many wonderful songs that praise God. My God is bigger than any style of music.

:Fish: :Fish:

 

Words:Fish:

 

I hang my head as I say this, but I have heard of all those groups and more, but why do you ask?:type:

 

"Never Gonna Be As Big As Jesus"
AUDIO ADRENALINE LYRICS

I could move to Hollywood
get my teeth capped I know I could
be a big star on the silver screen
just like James Dean I could be a star
I could climb the corporate ladder
buy, sell, and liquidate
Maybe be just like the Beatles
melodic, rocking heavyweights
I could learn to sing and dance
if I only had a chance
I could be a big rock star

I could be anything I wanted to
I wanted to
I could be anything but one thing's true

Never gonna be as big as Jesus
never gonna hold the world in my hand
never gonna be as big as Jesus
never gonna build a promised land
but that's alright with me

I could build a tower to heaven
get on top and touch the sky
I could write a million songs
all designed to glorify
I could be about as good
good as any human could
but that won't get me by

I do not know why I posted this but it sounded good at the time

 

And what kind of words makes a song gospel music?:flower:

 

Words Glorifying God

Types of music is based on the beat they use

You can take a Rock song and give it a Country beat

How many styles has Amazing Grace been done in? Does the style change the meaning?

 

I heard a lot that have no theology to speak of. Of course some does, so I am not condemning it all.

Agreed:thumbs:

Now, if I may interject.

At the risk of going far off-topic (maybe this should be another thread, I will consider starting one).

Is hard-rock like CCM appropriate for a worship service or only outreach? I saw in an earlier post, you indicated that Amazing Grace wouldn't reach the non-Christian, so that would seem an endorsement for outreach.

Is something appropriate for the Worship service that might offend worshippers?

Should the focus of the worship service be worship and edification of the saints, or outreach?

I came of age in the early 80's and was very familiar with the music of the time. I never associated that beat with God. In fact, it has mostly been associated with the devil instead. A lot of Rap is gutter-talk and glorifies lawlessness. The type of music does carry a connotation in people's minds. That may be the individual's problem, in your view, but if it affects enough individuals isn't that a problem for the church?

Another point that I would like to bring up is the fact that Baptists do not generally have doctrinal documents like some other churches have. Most of the doctrine that I learned as a younger man came from the traditional hymns that I learned at church. I don't believe I am alone in this.

If CCM is not as doctrinally strong (and 9/10's of what I have come across isn't), then the effect of using it in our church services is going to result in the next generation not being strong in the doctrines of the Bible. Music is a great tool for teaching, but CCM generally doesn't take advantage of that. Though I would agree that doctrine should be taught in sermons and should come from personal bible study, what percentage of people retain enough from a sermon and spend enough time in bible study?

I freely admit that my musical taste is opinion. I will not cite biblical proof against CCM, and I will admit that some of it is good. I will also admit that some traditional hymns are bad, but I think the points above should be considered in what we do with music in our churches.

Dave

 

I like the modern music but I would not like it at a Church service. Churc to me is Hymns and Serman

The modern music, for me, is for everyday living and enjoyment.

I am fortunate that while at work I can listen to my music with a headphone. I can be listening to Ray Bolz 'I Pledge Alligiance' and then to Reliank K "Be My Escape" It keeps me away from office politics and focussed on God and the life I should be living.

Now when I first heard Reliant K I was like WHAT then I looked up the lyrics, some of them are pretty good

 

You have heard of those groups, but have you ever listened to their music?
Some of their songs are just as holy as any traditional gospel. Just because I may not like a particular style of music doesn't make it evil. It's the lyrical content and the meaning of the song that makes it evil. I can find nothing evil in Mercy Me's "I Can Only Imagine", or Third Day's "Cry out to Jesus", or Casting Crowns "Voice of Truth". All of these songs have wonderful God inspired messages. And I believe many people have come to know God because of these artist. Those people might not have heard about the glory of God otherwise because they may not like the style of traditional gospel.

I understand we will probably never agree on this subject and that's fine. But please don't try to condemn anyone who doesn't conform to your standards. Please make sure you have some Biblical backing before condemning.

God Bless

 

According to one preacher I heard not that long ago, it does matter. Here's the situation.

Preacher A hears a song on the local Christian station and the singer has a voice that the preacher thinks is too "guttural". I don't know who the singer was, and I don't know what the song was. But, the voice was too "guttural" and he said that it sounded evil and wicked. Not a word was said about the lyrics of the song, or the supposed evil beat or supposed evil chords, but the voice of the singer was evil. He followed it up with an incredulous, "Can you believe what this country is coming to?" Yeah, I know, we're in the handbasket on our way to Hell because somebody is praising God in a low, "guttural" voice.

So, apparently your voice has to be acceptable before you're allowed to sing songs for the Lord.

I'll echo that. Most people that are anti-CCM would have bailed on this conversation long ago.

 

Given that you've posted outright lies in order to try to make an argument, I don't know that I'd be accusing anyone of manipulating anytyhing if I were you.

 

Back to the orginal topic (I think)...

Here are my personal opinions just to weigh in:

Ok, I LOVE hymns. They are what I can pour my heart and soul into when singing them. They are what I love and hold dear in a worship services.

I also love Air1, and a lot of music that I hear on it. Given the options to listen to that, or other choices on the radio, I'd rather hear music from a Christian perspective.

BUT, what I totally don't like and appreciate is people acting like we must get rid of hymns from worship, or acting like hymns are not good enough anymore. Maybe people don't want to sing those new 7-11 songs for a variety of reasons. Maybe their heart isn't in it as they have no connection to those songs. Why should they be made to feel like they are "old fashioned" and un-contemporary (when has contemporary been a requirement?)

As for doing a "new" thing (and then accusing the person who said to do the old thing of bending scripture after someone does it to claim they are bending it,) do we keep doing new things into perpetuity? Do we keep needing new covenents and new testaments? Where does the newness stop? There is nothing wrong with old, as even the old was once the new. But, don't push the new and discredit the old, just for the sake of change.

My favorite SBC joke is as follows: "How does a Southern Baptist change a light bulb?" to which the answer is "Change!? Who needs change!?" That was told to me by a very old SBC minister. There is something to that. As many denominations try and mold to society, we have (at least on paper) stood our ground, even though it is unpopular, because of what we were grounded in.

But, I read an article advocating change that ridiculed the following quote from the 1958 edition of the Encyclopedia of Southern Baptists: "A Southern Baptist tends to remain a Southern Baptist, whether he lives in Virginia, Georgia, California, Ohio, or Montana. He needs not easily adjust to a church fellowship in which methods and practices are different from those to which he has been conditioned. Churches which are methodologically different are automatically suspect."

Personally, I think that was (and perhaps still is) a very good trait of SBC Churches. But I guess I'm just old fashioned. :smilewinkgrin:

 

I can not speak for the others but I LOVE the old Hyms and that is what I want to sing at worship. I do not want to do away with the old but bring in some new, most of them I would not want at church service as I am old fashioned myself, being a young 36 :tongue3:

In the Garden in my favorite:flower:

 

I told you sorry if I upset you, that is the best I can do.:type:

 

But you didn't apologize for what you did.

You're offering a Bill Clinton apology in which blame is shifted back to the offended party.

You need to apologize for lying and for being rude.